Chris Titley: Hi, I'm Chris Titley and this is FinTech Fun, the podcast where I speak with Australian FinTech founders and executive management. And have some fun along the way, gaining insights about the person behind the brand. Fintech Fun is part of day one, the network dedicated to founders, operators, and investors. Chris Titley: I'm joined by Linda Kocher, co founder of Co operati. Linda, thanks so much for being part of this podcast series. Lynda Coker: Thanks, Chris, for having me on. Chris Titley: And Lynda Coker: great Chris Titley: to see you again. We've hung out many times. in Sydney. This one is a, is a virtual call, but now, you know, I've followed your career a little bit, but do you want to give the listeners a little bit of understanding about your background and this new venture of yours? Lynda Coker: Sure. Um, well I feel like I've probably gone about the journey a bit back to front. So my first time as a founder, but I've been playing around in startup land for maybe six, seven years now. Uh, I've sort of been an employee in a startup, you know, on a, on the board of a startup, but I've invested in a startup. Lynda Coker: Now it's your turn. So it is a little bit different once you, uh, are actually doing it for real yourself, um, you know, from scratch, but, um, but my background before that was, um, was sort of, you know, very corporate, um, qualified as a chartered accountant, worked for EY for a long time, spent a lot of time in the UK, mainly in financial services though. Lynda Coker: So all my clients. We're banks, insurers, asset managers. Um, and I was typically working, you know, in, in corporate finance. Um, so I was kind of there, you know, during the whole banking crisis. And a lot of that was sort of restructuring things rather than, uh, um, buying things and selling things. But, um, but yeah, no, I've been back in Australia now, um, for, oh my God, it's It's a little over 10 years now. Lynda Coker: So, um, yeah, I, I came back with EY. I worked with them here and then I decided I really wanted to do something different, uh, took a bit of a sabbatical, went traveling and then, you know, kind of started immersing myself, um, in the startup ecosystem. And that was when Stone and Chalk started, uh, you know, getting going and. Lynda Coker: Yeah, I'd been involved, um, in a government inquiry before that. And I knew Craig done quite well. He was the chair of Stone and Chalk at the time. And yeah, so I just sort of started meeting a lot of startups and figuring out ways that I could work with them, help them. And then, you know, has gone, had been on a bit of a journey from there. Lynda Coker: There Chris Titley: you go. I remember the Stone and Chalk days. I was actually talking, uh, on a podcast recently about the, um, H2 Accelerator program back in 2015. I think it was with Ben and Toby Heap. And, uh, and they had simply Wall Street and, uh, Spriggy and Ed Start and a lot of them sort of. Coming on to 10 years now, um, still around and still, still thriving. Lynda Coker: Yeah, there's definitely some, um, some startups that I met at that time. Um, you know, in the inaugural Stone and Chalk, you know, in the old AFP building. That is still going. There's obviously some that are not, but that is That is kind of the way it goes, but, um, yeah, some great founders and it's really, you know, it's really good to see the whole ecosystem matured. Lynda Coker: You know what I mean? In terms of, um, angel investors and even the, even the VC funds, you know, they have grown and, um, and, and the supporters, you know, the whole sort of fabric, I think has, has started, you know, it's, it's matured. There's more to go, but it's matured, um, um, quite a bit since, um, Chris Titley: And then taking your corporate background and immersing yourself in the, um, startup world and sort of a bit, bit faster and more dynamic, and then leading us here into 2024 into your own venture. Chris Titley: Can you talk about, um, the thinking behind, uh, cooperative and then how it began and how's it going? Lynda Coker: Yeah, so, I feel like it's, it was, it's definitely the right time for me personally, but in, but also in terms of the venture and what we're building. So, Cooperty, if I explain a little bit about what it is, we, we make co ownership. Lynda Coker: Co ownership is a real, well, it's not the only solution, and it's not, uh, but we see it as a solution to address housing affordability. So, my co founder, Liz Roche, uh, who I actually met when I was at Vault Bank, um, she was also at a point in her career as well. I, I'd spent, A little bit of time before starting this venture with Liz, uh, at 1835i as well, which is ANZ's, um, corporate innovation lab and looking at home ownership. Lynda Coker: So I felt like, okay, I've, I've had this bit of time looking in this space. Um, I've, I've come out of there really looking as to what do I do next? Have kind of having discussions with a lot of people connected with Liz who had also been thinking about this and it just seemed the right time to do something. Lynda Coker: Um, so, so that was last year. And we spent quite a bit of time talking to a lot of people and trying to validate where we start, um, and which has really only culminated in, um, in, in, in launching really, uh, in the last few weeks. Chris Titley: Fantastic. And the idea around co ownership versus sort of the traditional ownership, can you give the listeners out there a little bit of a 101 on what the difference is. Lynda Coker: So co ownership, uh, is, you know, obviously when two or more people own the owner property, residential property together, and they are on title, um, as, as owners. And we very much support the concept of tenants in common. versus joint tenants. So joint tenants is when you own a property jointly with another person. Lynda Coker: Uh, whereas tenants in common is where you can have more than two people and you don't own it jointly. You, you can have uneven fractions. Um, and, and the other, the other Different concept is, um, there's, there's no survivorship. So, um, I, your fraction that you own of the property is actually yours to sell. Lynda Coker: You to bequeath in, in, in a will or an estate. Um, so what sort of happens, you know, sorry to be morbid, but what happens in joint tenants, if someone passes away, you know, the, it passes to your joint tenant or the other person. So we see it as actually, you know, Really quite, um, the right thing for, for example, people, it's not our target market to start with, but, you know, people later in life when they get together and they, they, they co buy a property, they may want to actually pass that share of the house, um, to their children. Lynda Coker: So, you know, there's, there's a state protection, um, Advantages of, of buying something from Tenants in Common. Chris Titley: Is this something which you've sort of identified from overseas and looked at the, the way that it has worked in, in other countries? Or is this something which you think, well, actually, why hasn't this happened? Chris Titley: Let's go and do it. Lynda Coker: Uh, so Tenants in Common has been around for Like for a long time. Uh, and it also does exist in, in, in other countries, typically the Commonwealth countries. So, um, it's a, it's a legal framework that's always been there. I just feel like it's never been very well understood. It's not being digitized and it's time to sort of empower it and bring it to light, particularly given the housing crisis that we're, that we're in. Lynda Coker: And, you know, The unfortunate reality is that most people can't afford to buy a house by themselves. Yeah. And, and even, you know, it's funny, I've spoken to people that, you know, got married 30 years ago. And, uh, mind you, uh, this particular person was a lawyer, but they got married. They, they, sorry, they got married. Lynda Coker: They're now divorced, but they bought tenants in common. And I asked her, would, would she reflect and do it the same? She goes, absolutely. So it's a concept that's been around for a long time. We feel that given the crisis, um, there's a lot of different use cases where co ownership works, not just in terms of the, the affordability lens, um, the target market that we are focused on, uh, in terms of our MVP is really. Lynda Coker: Two market segments. So one, um, those cohorts of people that, you know, either are flatmates, friends, family. They want to buy a house. They want to buy it together. They want to pool resources and share costs and get on the ladder. Um, and then the other target market is parents who are wanting to help their children. Lynda Coker: Oh, Lynda Coker: yes. Lynda Coker: Yep. Okay. Lynda Coker: That makes Lynda Coker: sense. You know, we feel that there are definitely certain scenarios, not all scenarios, but there's definitely scenarios where it's a better way to help your children and actually help yourself, um, or selves is, um, not gifting the money and co owning the property. It's not a gift. Lynda Coker: Do you know what I mean? It's, um, you get to participate in the. Asset growth. If your kids get flatmates, you get to participate in a potential rental return. And also, um, you know, you have a contract in place where actually everyone's, um, responsible for their own ownership costs. In accordance with how much they own of the house. Lynda Coker: But equally, and it's funny, this has come up a couple of times, is that parents are often concerned if their kids have partnered up with someone and that doesn't work out. They've gifted this money and what's happened to that. Yes. So absolutely. Yeah. Another makes a bit of sense of, um, you're actually, Chris Titley: things have can happen. Chris Titley: You're Lynda Coker: actually, you, you are owning that, right? Yeah. So, Chris Titley: and, and then from that, that model, let's talk about potential parents, um, for their children. Can it be as. As little or sort of equal is like 95 percent one party and 5 percent the other and then over time potentially buy it back? Or is it quite complicated to sort of exit or increase or decrease your stake? Lynda Coker: Well, what we sort of, uh, and we, we don't actually provide financial advice. We always recommend people get their own financial advice, which is why we're actually partnering with financial advisors. It really depends on your own, um, financial situation and taxes. position, uh, and how much you were going to sort of gift the, the children to start with, or you can afford to afford to, uh, to give them, but you absolutely should have an exit plan. Lynda Coker: Um, and it will also depend on the lending product available. There are definitely some lenders which actually only, you know, Want a, a minimum fraction of 30%. Gotcha. Okay. Yep. There are, there are others that are happy to, um, happy to approve exceptions and have lower. But I think it's always very dependent on, on the position of the parents and how much they can actually afford to. Lynda Coker: Oh, sorry, be contributing, not gifting, but, um, but, uh, but also, you know, what's right for them in terms of their retirement plans, um, et cetera. So, and, and having an exit plan is important and that's what we actually contemplate in our co ownership agreement that we provide as part of the platform. Chris Titley: One question before we get onto the future, you mentioned that you sort of gone live now, a couple of weeks ago. Chris Titley: How was that? And, uh, and how did everything go? Lynda Coker: Uh, thank you. Yeah, look, it was, uh, a long time sort of just kind of ideating and then obviously building and then launching. Um, we've had a lot of great engagement, actually. So we're, we're in beta, we're learning, um, in terms of sort of the Like the customers that we've, that we've been, um, bringing on board. Lynda Coker: Um, but what we are learning is, um, we absolutely really value the partners that we've, um, engaged with. And, and mortgage brokers is an, is a very, very important channel for us. It's a primary channel for us. So, uh, and their feedback, because they're at the call face having these conversations, you know, people, before they start looking for a property. Lynda Coker: have a conversation around what can I afford and, um, just really learning from them in terms of what are the obstacles and challenges in terms of putting financing in place. So, um, yeah, no, we're working very well with our, with our partners, um, in that, in that regard and, and, and want to learn and try and help, help them as well as sort of, um, our own solution and what it's trying to solve. Lynda Coker: So no, it's been going really great. And, um, I'm really, really happy in terms of where we are. There's a lot more that we want to, um, to, to build, and even in terms of other partner channels expand out, but we want to use this phase to really sort of, um, test and learn. Chris Titley: And then talking about the future, um, have you got any short, are you a short term goal person, medium term, big hairy audacious goal? Chris Titley: Is there something which you'd like to achieve in the, in the near term? Lynda Coker: Look, we we want to take this to market. Um, it's a big problem. Um, we do have a road map and it's very phased. So, um, we have, we think there's a lot of other use cases other than just, you know, younger cohorts of related parties and the bank of mom and dad. Lynda Coker: We want to sort of roll out our MVP to other use cases where it works. I mentioned the later in life, um, coupling, but there's also the deceased states, granny flats. They're not on separate title, divorce. There's lots of other, you know, there's lots of other things where co ownership is, is, is, is a result of a situation or, or it's needed in a situation where I think what we've built works for that, but that's not our initial focus. Lynda Coker: Uh, cause we feel like the demand is so much more heightened in those first two use cases. So we want to roll out our MVP, um, to those other, other use cases. Um, we want to continue to engage and advocate with government. And. I would say that we want to start building in, you know, new features and we see our MVP evolving to, you know, a number of different, um, solutions, uh, in terms of, you know, helping people manage their ownership costs and financial position. Lynda Coker: And we want to white label what we've built to brokers, property agents, financial advisors. Um, and we also sort of essentially have a, you know, a big kind of. bold ambition to, um, to either partner or build a fractional loan product. That's the big hit. Chris Titley: There you go. Excellent. Um, thank you for sharing that now, Linda. Chris Titley: Um, you've now a startup co founder and obviously it's, um, you know, full, full throttle ahead with all these different types of products and also customers. Um, do you get a chance to switch off? And if you do, what's, what's the secret hobby that not many people know about you? Lynda Coker: There hasn't been much of a chance to switch off recently, but, um, Well, I think most people that know me, I'm a pretty social person. Lynda Coker: Um, but, um, yeah, look, I haven't had a chance to travel recently, but that's definitely on the agenda for later in the year. One thing most people might not know about me is that I'm actually a pianist, so I actually really want to get back into Chris Titley: music. Ah, I didn't know that about you either. I've had multiple, um, uh, social gatherings with you, Linda. Chris Titley: Yeah. I didn't know you were good on the, uh, good on the piano. Lynda Coker: Oh, I used to actually teach piano. Uh, when I was at university, it was sort of my, my, uh, I sort of realized I could earn more money kind of, um, teaching beginners than, you know, working, uh, in the, in the local shopping mall or whatever. And I, and I had done all my exams, et cetera, but you know, I have. Lynda Coker: Um, I'm trying to get back into it, not in terms of like composing or anything, but actually just, you know, playing like, so I try, I try to make time for that. And I actually do think that that's quite a nice way to switch off too. Yes. Yes. Well, I have electronic keyboard, which has kind of like a, like it's a full piano length keyboard. Lynda Coker: So, um, yes, my, I, my apartment doesn't fit a piano. Chris Titley: Do you have, um, do you have a favorite sort of tune or is there something which like you're in a sort of a. A really sort of tired mood that you'd play or a happy mood you'd play? Is there something, one of your favorite pieces? Lynda Coker: I play a mix of things. Um, like I actually really do like classical and the old stuff. Lynda Coker: Uh, but I do like, and, and by classical I mean some of the contemporary stuff. Like I'm very kind of dissonant sort of person. I like coffee off and all that kind of, uh, stuff. But actually I like playing just modern things too for fun. So, you know what, Chris hit me up next social winter gathering and there's a piano in through Done. Lynda Coker: I'll, uh, that Chris Titley: sounds like a plan. One, one final question. You did mention that you. Did take a year off and you traveled and you might want to get away later on this year if you had. one destination that you had to go to and you kind of had unlimited money, where would it be? Lynda Coker: Oh, do you know what? Um, I, and I had a great year off. Lynda Coker: Um, I kind of, I did really go ballistic on that year off and I felt like I ticked a lot off the bucket list, but you know, one place I did actually, sorry, I'm a bit of a queen of the sabbaticals. I did a year, Off before that year off in coming to um, to back to Australia and I sort of did a year in South America in Central America. Lynda Coker: But one place I missed off 'cause I ran out of time and I would love to go back to is the Galapagos. Right. Okay. Not that Ecuador. Not, not that Ecuador is probably a good place to go at the moment, but, um, I did miss, I did miss out on going to the Galapagos, so that's always been on my list. Plus, I would just love to go back to, uh, that part of the world anyway. Lynda Coker: The Chris Titley: bucket list. Lynda Coker: Practice my, yeah, practice my very, very limited kindergarten Spanish that I did pick up at the time. Ah, Chris Titley: there you go. You might, might, uh, do a part time job teaching Spanish and teaching piano. And, um, so much for coming on the podcast today and giving us a bit of an understanding about your background. Chris Titley: Also, um, the, the, the launch of the startup, uh, property, which is, which is fantastic. And also some future plans. Uh, and some secrets that other people may not have known about you. I really always enjoy catching up with you, um, Linda, and looking forward to catching up again in person and all the best for Coroperty. Lynda Coker: Thank you so much, Chris. Thanks for, thanks for having me on. It's always fun to chat to you too.