Chris Titley: Hello, it's Chris Titley here on this week's episode of FinTech Fun. We're joined by Andrew Butt, co founder and CEO of Enable. Andrew, thank you so much for being part of the series. Great to be here Chris, thanks for having me. Andrew, something, uh, unique, we normally sort of focus on Australian based FinTechs, but, uh, Enable is not an Australian based FinTech. Chris Titley: I'd love to get a little bit of an understanding of what, uh, Enable is, and a little bit about the history of the business. Andrew Butt: Absolutely, yes, yeah, no, we're certainly growing fast in Australia. I've enjoyed spending a lot of time there. We have offices in Sydney and Melbourne and customers all over the place. Andrew Butt: We can talk about that more, but enable is a B to B SAS platform, and it really helps companies of all types in the supply chain, particularly to manage incentive agreements and what we call rebates. So we work with a lot of retailers, for example, as well as distributors and manufacturers to manage all kinds of incentive and rebate agreements. Chris Titley: And Andrew, how did the business begin? What was the spark around the idea and take us back to the early days of day one with Enable? Andrew Butt: Yeah, sure, absolutely. Yeah, so I met my co founder, we were actually both learning to fly at the time, which was my other kind of passion in life. And, um, uh, he was already running a very successful distribution company in the UK. Andrew Butt: That's where my roots are. And, uh, this was like a central distribution company that was growing very, very fast. And it had more and more complicated kind of programs and arrangements and incentives with its suppliers. Uh, but there was no modern software to track that well. So, so that was really the initial inspiration. Andrew Butt: My background is, is kind of coding. Uh, and fortunately now we have much better engineers than myself, but I started by building a system for that distribution company called DCS. And then we had a huge amount of inbound interest from its immediate trading partners and elsewhere. So that kind of led to us building Enable as a dedicated software company. Chris Titley: And Andrew, can you talk about the rebates and incentives and the whole, um, I suppose the whole market, the way you play? And is this sort of a newish market that you've built? And I suppose the, the. some high level metrics around how it all works on a global basis for SMEs and large businesses? Andrew Butt: Sure. Andrew Butt: Absolutely. Yeah. So it's certainly, I'd say rebate management is a new category, new software category. And as we were starting this a few years ago, a lot of analysts and people kind of said, this thing seems really small and I don't think many companies really use rebates. And so I don't know if it's much of a company, but what we've really kind of seen and demonstrated is this is just completely like huge, huge space. Andrew Butt: And to answer your question, really, every retailer and every distributor in almost every industry in every country is, is kind of using these types of incentives to drive revenue, drive margin, because it's really like a pay for performance. So anyone that's kind of buying and selling on goods. They obviously buy at their costs and sell as a. Andrew Butt: You know, mark up and make a gross margin in the middle. But this is something overlaid over the top of that, that can drive behavior to hit certain value, volume, product mix, market share. And so it's just a huge, huge phenomenon to try and give you some stats. I would say 80 percent of global trade goes through the supply chain, as opposed to direct from who makes the product to who consumes it. Andrew Butt: So that's now about 80 trillion US dollars globally. And rebates and incentives are attached to the vast majority of that I can't give you an exact percentage, but well over, well over 50 percent of that, and they probably on average are about 5 percent of the value of the trade. So, so you're talking about, you know, trillions of dollars a year in kind of rebate funds. Chris Titley: And Andrew, when you use, when companies use your platform, there's obviously a tangible number. They're like, wow, we've actually streamlined this to save this amount of money. Um, can you see some benefits from clients and people tell you that like, actually, wow, you've saved us or you've, you've, you've, you've added us to the extra revenue or is it, or is it a cost saving? Chris Titley: Can you talk about that? And the customer feedback? Totally. Andrew Butt: Yeah, absolutely. So it's all of the above. And it depends on how you use it and what your use case is. But if you are, say, a retailer or distributor, it's a, Then typically this is 100 percent of your margin. Okay. And it could be a lot more than that, by the way, or, but on average, it's 100%. Andrew Butt: And we are finding, you know, often millions of dollars that is not being received because it's just not being tracked by the distributor or the retailer in an, in an accurate or a precise way. So we're kind of delivering a significant ROI, maybe 400 percent in year one or something would be, would be a typical figure if you're receiving that, that money. Andrew Butt: But then if you're on the other side, then this is about getting the best possible kind of margin and revenue for every dollar that you spent. Okay. So you're, you're going to be spending money anyway on this and paying this incentive out. But often the effectiveness is not very high. So in that case, we're, we're boosting revenue and I'd say that's the biggest reason why we've grown so fast because we can demonstrate such tangible ROI. Chris Titley: And Andrew, in regards to the features and the, the platform itself, are you getting some good feedback from customers in terms of, um, development and innovation and some pain points, et cetera, to upgrade your system? And also how you thinking about. I'm enhancing your platform internally. Andrew Butt: Yeah, yeah, sure. Andrew Butt: Absolutely. Yeah, we get a lot of feedback and we have a custom advisory board and lots of different forums. We have a community of about two and a half thousand kind of rebate experts, many of whom use our system. So lots of ways to get feedback. And some of that is just incremental improvement. And then some of it is much more kind of, uh, uh, game changing. Andrew Butt: I'd say we started out in finance teams. So teams that are trying to calculate and forecast and accrue for this type of, this type of fund, and, and then we've moved into a commercial team. So we're being used by sellers and buyers to help them kind of optimize. And of course we're using AI. Um, uh, to make recommendations and, and help people optimize. Andrew Butt: So, you know, based on all the agreements you have, here's how you could buy and sell differently to get better financial return. And also here's how you could create a better agreement, better incentive going forward. So those are some of the examples where we're developing the product. Chris Titley: And Andrew from, from inception to as the company has grown out, you've, you've raised some capital. Chris Titley: Can you talk about that, the importance of it, some of your investors and what your plans to do with that capital? Andrew Butt: Sure, totally. Yeah. Yeah. So we bootstrapped the business to about say, uh, the first 20 customers and we thought it was really important to get the product right and get say 20 customers who were, you know, live and getting value and, and kind of reporting good feedback. Andrew Butt: And that was the point we raised our first capital and that happened to be a Series A and it was led by Menlo Ventures. And we've since that was in 2020. So four years ago, we've since raised a BC and D, and we've had, you know, Norwest venture partners lead the B we had insight partners out of New York lead the C and then light speed in, in Silicon Valley lead the D. Andrew Butt: So, so that's been a journey so far. And in terms of use of funds, it's really about R and D and sales and marketing or in the distribution. So, so kind of. Making the product more and more kind of valuable for our customers and then extending our distribution so we can get it into the hands of more and more companies and provide the support they need to get the value. Chris Titley: And Andrew, when you thought about the business, I assume you thought global first as this is a global problem. This is we can take customers from anywhere. How's that panned out in your head in terms of geographic locations and also dealing in multiple jurisdictions? Andrew Butt: Yeah, I mean, I think that when we started it was in the UK only and that's where the team was exclusively and we were getting inquiries from from all over the place and certainly Australia and also the U. Andrew Butt: S. And, and then it didn't take long to realize this would be a global company and huge global opportunity. So we kind of went into English speaking countries first and did a lot in Australia, UK, Canada, US. And then we started kind of going into some, um, other countries around Europe and, and, you know, Made the product more kind of, uh, international and multilingual and so on. Andrew Butt: Um, so now it's really a 24 7 business and we have a kind of follow the sudden support model so customers can get that 24 hour support. And, um, certainly, uh, I often don't know what time zone I'm in, but there's activity happening all the time. Chris Titley: Andrew, I'm going to ask you a very serious question right now. Chris Titley: What time zone are you in and where are you now? Andrew Butt: Uh, so I'm in Pacific time, I'm currently in San Francisco. Chris Titley: Right, okay, and you spend a fair bit of time in the U. S. and, and, uh, is home in the U. K. still? Andrew Butt: So, so, uh, I live in the U. S. and, uh, my wife and I moved here in 2020. Uh, but we do spend a lot of time on the road. Andrew Butt: So, so, you know, I've been, uh, to, uh, just come back from Sydney and Melbourne very recently. I'll be in Europe in a week or so. And, and, uh, you know, Canada a lot, we have a lot of employees there. So, so on the road a lot, but we currently call. Chris Titley: And Andrew with the, with the hat on, if we repeat this podcast in 12 months time, where would you like to see Enable and what's obviously there's a buzz around AI and the, and the, and the technological trends that are happening. Chris Titley: You mentioned it's probably an opportunity as opposed to a threat. Can you talk about the next 12 months for Enable? Andrew Butt: Yeah, sure. Uh, so I think we're really continuing to kind of grow in maturity and, um, you're right, AI has been very topical. We've been quite kind of cautious and careful because the, the incentive agreements our companies have are, Highly confidential and sensitive, and it's how our customers make again all of their profit in many, many cases. Andrew Butt: Uh, so, so thinking about things like, um, uh, you know, private versus public models and how we use AI and how we make sure we control them, you know, we're not, we're not, um, divulging customers data that's been important. So I'd say we've had some very good kind of early customers working very closely with us on applying AI to everything we do. Andrew Butt: But over the next 12 months, that's being released much more into the kind of mainstream products and will underpin virtually everything that the product does. So that will be an important transition over the next 12 months. That's probably the top one. Chris Titley: Yeah, absolutely. And Andrew, just on a personal level, you mentioned you do travel a lot, um, you've obviously racked up a few frequent flyers. Chris Titley: What's your favorite, uh, what's your favorite airport or lounge? Andrew Butt: Um, well, I think, uh, my classic answer to that would be in, in, uh, London Heathrow Terminal 5, uh, British Airways has the Concorde Lounge, which is, is particularly attractive. Good. That's probably the best. Um, uh, but that's, that's purely in that one location. Andrew Butt: I think being in the U S a lot, you know, United is, is, is excellent. And, uh, SFO is a gray airport. I can fly from San Francisco directly to Melbourne, directly to Sydney. I can go to Tokyo. I can go to Hong Kong. I can go to London and it's always 25, 20 minute drive from where I live. So that's, that's been a good experience. Chris Titley: And Andrew, your journey is in Australia. Can you talk about Australia and what your thoughts are? Oh, totally. Andrew Butt: Yeah. Um, I love Australia. I've visited, you know, many cities, many times, and we've grown the team there quite significantly. It's certainly probably the fastest growing region for us, actually. So it's the kind of office we opened most recently, and that was That was a couple of years ago. Andrew Butt: We've gone from a couple of people there to a team of like 40 people in quite a short space of time. Um, and yeah, I mean, one fun story for you is one of my interests is classic cars. And I actually purchased a classic car, uh, about eight years ago from a guy who had restored it in Sydney. Okay. He bought it. Andrew Butt: It's a British car. He bought it in South Africa, took it back to Sydney, restored it there, and then I eventually bought it. And when I visited Sydney not too long ago, we met up for the first time in a long time, and he actually drove my wife and I around Sydney in his drop heads pre war Bentley. So that was quite a fun Chris Titley: Australia story. Chris Titley: Yeah, no, absolutely. And, uh, I'm just trying to think about the logistics of, uh, of purchasing a car that was in South Africa and then in Sydney and then to the UK or to San Francisco. I don't know. Yes, no, no, you're Andrew Butt: right. It was originally delivered to Edinburgh in 1935 and then the guy I bought it from found it in South Africa and moved it to Sydney and then some years later moved it back to the UK and then I then some years later moved it to San Francisco. Andrew Butt: So there we go. Chris Titley: Now someone that doesn't collect, uh, vintage cars, um, I'm thinking in my head, is this, uh, an investment or is it, uh, a hobby or is it, uh, a and b? Andrew Butt: It's, it, well, I think it's, initially it is a hobby, um, for sure. Uh, but, uh, it's certainly not depreciating. So that's quite, quite a nice feeling to have a hobby where it's, it's, you know, and, and things like insurance and tax are very cheap because, um, you know, so it's a very, it's a surprisingly inexpensive Chris Titley: hobby. Chris Titley: And, uh, your favorite vintage car that you've driven is probably yours, but is there another favorite as well? Can you talk about your car? Andrew Butt: Yeah, I mean, uh, I like, I like British cars and, uh, I think certainly Bentley and Rolls Royce are always fascinating to me. So, um, those, those, that would be my favorite, favorite brands when it comes to classic cars. Chris Titley: Is there a website or something that you jump on all the time and it's sort of an ego when you get a bit of downtime, you just check out the market? Andrew Butt: Probably not so recently. I mean, a few years ago, but now definitely what I'm doing with Enable is quite, quite all consuming. Um, so, uh, uh, but you know, um, yeah, maybe I'm, I'm in the, I'm in the drivers club. Andrew Butt: I'm in the Bentley drivers club in the UK, uh, but I haven't stepped foot there for a few years. So I. I enjoy reading the magazine, I think, once every couple of months. Chris Titley: And Andrew, one final question when it comes to switching off and down time. You mentioned the vintage cars. You are running a global workforce. Chris Titley: You're running a global business. It's growing fast. You've got some of the world's best investors from a VC point of view on your register. Do you actually switch off or do you slow down? Do you actually just take a breath every now and then and have a hobby outside collecting cars? Andrew Butt: Um, uh, sure. I mean, I really do like traveling and, uh, and seeing new places and, you know, that, that change of scenery does give a fresh perspective and I always try and tag on a couple of days. Andrew Butt: So if I, if I go from say San Francisco to Sydney, for example, I'll, I'll try and spend a couple of days, uh, doing some, some, um, you know, sightseeing and hiking, and so I really like getting out and getting some fresh air and hiking. Um, the reality is I am kind of always on it and that's how I want to be. Andrew Butt: I want to be available and contactable and able to support my team. So I don't kind of haven't had any downtime for the last few years, but definitely find time to explore and get a real kind of boost from traveling and, you know, exploring new environments. Chris Titley: Andrew, I've got one final question, uh, in regards to the investors that I talked about, that some of these names are, uh, are greater, I suppose, in terms of, or well known in terms of VC. Chris Titley: On a global basis and some of the investments they've made in the past are larger, large technology companies. How do you manage each investor, I suppose, and their requirements and their needs and the different check sizes, et cetera, the cap table? Andrew Butt: Yeah, and do you mean just on a kind of ongoing kind of? Andrew Butt: Yeah, on an ongoing basis in Chris Titley: terms of, yeah, that's right. The reporting, the transparency, the comms, et cetera. Andrew Butt: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, we've got some great, like you say, some great investors, both in terms of the firms and their reputations as firms, but also, uh, you know, as, as importantly, if not more, the, the individuals. Andrew Butt: So, so I've got kind of four lead investors who all sit on the board, uh, who represent the four firms I, I, I mentioned earlier. And we, we work very closely. We're on a texting basis, you know, uh, in, in all, in all cases. And so, um, there's regular contact, I'd say at a minimum, there'll be a call, um, in between each board meeting, uh, just to kind of catch up call. Andrew Butt: And then that, it, that could be it in one quarter, but then in another quarter, you know, There could be a couple of calls a week, uh, different times of the day and a week. And it just depends on what's, what's going on and, uh, where, where we might want, you know, I might want some advice or, or, uh, kind of have a discussion about something. Andrew Butt: So, uh, you know, I have a great relationship with every one of those investors. And I got to know, you know, the type of things that they're interested in. And, uh, just like any other relationship, really just, just, just maintaining that communication and making sure it's tailored to what each person is looking for. Chris Titley: Andrew, thank you so much for jumping on the FinTech fun podcast today. It's as I said, it's a little bit different in regards to not an Australian based FinTech, but certainly a big, large presence in Australia. Looking forward to you coming back down under at some point in time and catching up in real life and, uh, and having Andrew Butt: Likewise, looking forward to it. Andrew Butt: Thank you, Chris.