Joel Little is one of the world's top music producers, quietly shaping global hits behind the scenes - from co-writing Lorde’s breakthrough "Royals" to producing massive tracks for artists like Taylor Swift, Imagine Dragons, and Khalid. Despite Grammys, multi-platinum records, and billions of streams, Joel remains remarkably down-to-earth, bringing a uniquely Kiwi sensibility to Hollywood and beyond.

In this special live episode, Joel flips roles with early Trade Me engineer and investor Rowan Simpson, uncovering the striking similarities between creating hit songs and building startups. They dive into the art of discovering and shaping raw talent, how Kiwi humility can be a secret weapon (and sometimes a weakness), and the critical role that producers, mentors, and early supporters play in global success stories.

In today’s episode, we cover:

• Joel’s wild ride from recording Royals in two days to topping global charts, winning Grammys, and producing some of the decade’s biggest songs

• What music producers actually do, and why creative collaboration often feels like therapy

• Why Joel sold his song catalogue (and how that’s like a startup “exit”)

• The parallels between startups and music: from finding product-market fit, to pivoting when something’s not working, to knowing how to scale authentically

• How Kiwi humility can be both a superpower and a stumbling block on the world stage

• The backstory of Joel’s non-profit Big Fan, building studios and stages for the next generation of Kiwi artists

We also hear about Joel’s own personal growth, from musician in Goodnight Nurse to world-renowned producer, and Rowan’s perspective from the early days of Trade Me and Xero, reflecting on how creativity and business blend in unexpected ways.