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Shaking Up the Snow Globe: Inside Australia's Legal Psychedelic Clinics

About 4 min read
Original interview artwork: The Psychedelic Resurgence: From Counterculture to Clinical Breakthrough with Dr Michael Winlo
From the interview on What The Health with Emily Casey.
Hear the full conversation

In February 2023, Australia became the first country where authorised psychiatrists could legally prescribe MDMA and psilocybin. Dr Michael Winlo, Chief Scientific Officer at Emyria, describes what an actual eight-hour dosing session looks like — and what still stands between this and mainstream medicine.

In February 2023, Australia's Therapeutic Goods Administration down-scheduled MDMA and psilocybin, making Australia the first country in the world where an authorised psychiatrist can legally prescribe either drug therapeutically. MDMA is prescribable for post-traumatic stress disorder. Psilocybin is prescribable for treatment-resistant depression. Nothing else, for now — a line Dr Michael Winlo, Chief Scientific Officer at Emyria, says "may be shown to be arbitrary in the future," but for today, "we're kind of confined to those two lanes."

What a dosing day actually looks like

At Emyria's Empax clinics — currently running in Western Australia, Queensland and Victoria, with New South Wales just opening — a treatment course means two to three MDMA doses, or two psilocybin doses, each one a genuinely full day. The drug takes ninety minutes to two hours to take effect; the supervised session itself runs six to eight hours. Two trauma-informed therapists stay in the room for the entire thing and do not leave. Every dosing session is followed by separate integration therapy to work through what came up.

"We've had patients tell us it's like the knots of my mind are being untangled, or the clouds lifting. I feel like wearing colours today because happy people wear colours."

Winlo reaches for a different image for what the drugs themselves are doing neurologically: "We sometimes use the metaphor of shaking up the snow globe, letting the snow settle down into new patterns. You've got fresh snow to make a new attitude to life."

From nightclubs back to the clinic

MDMA's therapeutic history predates its reputation by decades. First synthesised by Merck in 1912, it was picked up again in the late 1970s by chemist Alexander Shulgin, who by Winlo's account passed it to his wife, who in turn introduced it to a psychotherapist — and from there into supervised therapeutic use, well before it acquired a street name and a nightclub reputation and was placed in Australia's most restrictive drug schedule in the mid-1980s.

The case Winlo makes for why the TGA eventually reversed course is that a run of MDMA-assisted PTSD trials, funded by the non-profit MAPS through Phase 2 and Phase 3, produced results a regulator publicly committed to "no therapeutic value" as the bar for prohibition couldn't credibly maintain. That's Winlo's read on the regulator's reasoning, not a quote from the TGA itself — but the underlying trial data and the 2023 rescheduling are matters of public record.

What the evidence says so far

Winlo cites Emyria's own patient numbers directly: "From our data now, we've treated over 100 patients, we're seeing this rapid improvement, but it appears very durable for a majority of patients as well." These are Emyria's own clinic figures.

On safety, Winlo is candid that MDMA carries real physiological load — it's stimulating, it can raise blood pressure and heart rate, and can produce anxiety in the moment — while maintaining that in a supervised clinical setting with pharmaceutical-grade preparation, the risk profile is well managed. Both things are true simultaneously: a drug with genuine cardiovascular activation, delivered inside a controlled environment designed specifically to manage that activation.

The actual obstacles to going mainstream

Winlo is unusually direct about why this remains a last-resort treatment rather than a first-line one, and none of his reasons are about the drugs working or not working.

Cost is the first: a full dosing cycle runs around $10,000, almost entirely the cost of two therapists' time across a full working day, multiple times. Health funders — Winlo names Medibank and the Department of Veterans' Affairs as early backers — aren't yet underwriting that at scale, partly because the industry hasn't produced the health-economic, cost-per-outcome data insurers actually need, as distinct from clinical outcome data.

Regulation is the second: the rules currently restrict who can act as a treatment's lead therapist to a narrow set of disciplines, which Winlo argues should widen. No country has an FDA-equivalent approval for either drug yet — Compass Pathways' psilocybin program is, in Winlo's expectation, closest to getting there, though any approval timeline is still to be confirmed.

And workforce is the third, largest one: "Even if half of all Australian therapists switched to psychedelic-assisted therapy," Winlo says, "there'd still be many decades to get through all the patients." Asked what's currently most overhyped about his own field, his answer undercuts the more breathless psychedelic-renaissance coverage directly: not that the drugs don't work, but that they're not a one-shot cure for everything. "There's still a lot of preparation involved," he says, "and a bit of work to be done afterwards as well."

We sometimes use the metaphor of shaking up the snow globe, letting the snow settle down into new patterns. You've got fresh snow to make a new attitude to life.
Dr Michael Winlo
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