Sam Garven
I've been on the receiving end of wanting to make a report. So I've been open about telling my story, and in that, I was sexually harassed, which escalated to sexual assault in the workplace. I was also bullied, and sometimes I told someone, and sometimes I didn’t, but none of those times were handled in the way that I would have liked. So, I know what it's like to feel unsafe and unsure about how to make a report.

Georgie
Hello everyone, Happy 2025. I'm checking in because this episode with Sam is one of my favourites. It's one of the most genuine conversations I've had, especially with a founder who is early in their journey but has a lot of experience and wisdom to share. However, the thing about recording with a founder in the early stages is that two months is a long time in terms of what they can develop and achieve, and the products they can bring to market.

Georgie
That's what has happened with Sam. I'm just giving a quick update based on our conversation and a few updates that she's shared with me. So I'll read you the WhatsApp message from her, and then you'll be fully up to date with the rest of the show. They have rebranded from Canopy to Hello Canopy to better capture the mission and vision that's coming to light in 2025. So, if you follow their LinkedIn, you'll be able to get some exciting updates throughout the year. Number two, their pilot has officially launched. They've already got a rollout for this first version, and they've got a select group of companies already on board.

Georgie
They've signed up for that. If you want to be part of the next release, they've got a waitlist. So you can be part of the first pilot. Just get in touch with Sam on LinkedIn or head over to their website. And finally, Sam has a co-founder, Emma, and they wrapped up the Techstars accelerator program at the end of December.

Georgie
My LinkedIn was absolutely flooded with incredible photos from their demo day. And this year for them is about focusing on the build, getting Hello Canopy into the market and in the hands of employees and businesses. So you're about to hear some really candid and really generous feedback, thoughts and feelings that go behind the scenes of being an early-stage founder of a fast-moving AI startup.

Georgie
So with no further ado, I'm about to give you the original intro now and kick off the show from there. Thanks so much. Hello and welcome to In the Blink of AI, where I speak to the brightest AI startups and innovators each week. I'm Georgie Healy, and this week I am speaking to Sam Garvin, co-founder of Canopy.

Georgie
They're creating safer, more informed workplaces through the use of AI technology. This is our most unfiltered, most authentic episode yet, and it's no surprise, Sam's EQ and IQ radars are off the charts. In this episode, we discuss the explosion of non-technical co-founders building AI startups. Yes, it's definitely possible.

Georgie
The superpower females have for networking, which is vital for business building. And the joys of building in public. We also chat about tall poppy syndrome and the kinds of people who should join an accelerator program. Take it from two women who have lots of life experience in this space. Lastly, I hope after listening to this episode, you learn how to embrace the cringe.

Georgie
Please enjoy the episode. Hi Sam, thank you for joining in the blink of an eye. Uh, I am so pumped for this episode. We did a briefing a few weeks back and even in that short space of time, you've achieved so much, and I think you've got such an incredible and insightful voice in the Australian ecosystem with what you're building currently.

Georgie
Can you start me off with kind of an elevator pitch for Canopy?

Sam Garven
Yeah, for sure. So hi, Georgie. Great to be here. Good to see you again. Um, so I'm the co-founder of Canopy and Canopy is a misconduct and psychosocial safety reporting platform. What that actually means is, as an employee, let's say you've experienced something at work.

Sam Garven
Let's say it's harassment or bullying. You can jump into Canopy's platform. It's AI-assisted. And so you can ask all the questions that you would have before even getting to report making like, what is harassment? What information do you need? How can I actually make this report? And Canopy will talk you through that report-making process.

Sam Garven
You can report anonymously, identified, or your report will be submitted into, I'll call it report limbo for now, until someone else names the same person, and then those reports will be submitted at the same time. To give you that safety in numbers and, you know, acknowledging that power dynamics are very real in businesses today and then on the submitted side of things, which is on the HR side.

Sam Garven
So my side, my people will have the report all in one place. So it's managed end to end also assisted by AI. So I can be there checking what are my obligations or what's my company policy on this? And then we'll also have data analytics. So I can get a snapshot of all of the hot spots in my company to know.

Sam Garven
Where I can jump in and actually make really meaningful change when it does come to my company's, my company's culture. So that's Canopy, caveat being we are six months young. So we are pre-product, pre-MVP. Um, but that's sort of the ideal sort of dream state, but we're going to be iterating, of course, as we go through building.

Georgie
Incredible. I mean, I'm sure this happens to you all the time. I want to dive into my own personal stories and how I would have loved to use this product, but you obviously, with your background in HR, had a big picture view of the industry, a view of your role. How did you know that this is a problem that needed solving potentially through technology and through AI?

Sam Garven
Yeah, great question. So I think it even starts before my time stepping into, you know, people and culture and HR in that I've been on the end of someone who's wanted to make a report. So I've not been, shy about telling my story and in that I was sexually harassed, which ended up turning into sexual assault in the workplace.

Sam Garven
I was bullied as well. And I did sometimes tell someone and then a few times I didn't, but none of those times was, you know, it wasn't handled in the way that I would have liked it to be. And so I know what it's like to not have that avenue of feeling safe to be able to make a report or even knowing how to make a report.

Sam Garven
And then what I was seeing in people in culture is that, you know, I would say by far and large, like most PNC teams are so well intentioned and they want to know when things go wrong, but the mechanism to actually make somebody feel like they can bring it to you is through email or in person or telling their manager.

Sam Garven
And sometimes that is quite confronting. And so research and data do tell us that people just don't make those reports. You know, only 18 percent of people will report being sexually harassed, which is so little. Only 34 percent of people will report bullying and harassment, and Australia is the worst developed country for bullying and harassment.

Sam Garven
So we just, we're not seeing the reports coming through and the data supports that. And so looking at all of, you know, my, my PNC friends and colleagues, they just know that they're not getting the reports. And then if they do get them, the way they're managing them is like through Slack and through email and in Google, you know, Google Drive and Google Docs.

Sam Garven
And, you know, it's just not a very condensed, streamlined way to actually manage those reports in the first place. So it's very multifaceted, right? But I think the problem is so, so complex in being done differently and in each business that it does make it really hard for employees, PNC teams, businesses to know exactly what's happening, how to manage it, and how to actually solve for it.

Georgie
Incredible. And thank you for your candor. Like it's one thing to have that domain experience that helps you build a product, but it's not something that you'd wish anyone would go through, obviously, but how fantastic for you to turn such an awful situation into trying to actually improve systems and processes such that that doesn't continually happen.

Georgie
I'm curious, obviously you've had a background in supporting people in your previous roles in HR and in the startup ecosystem, but specifically the role of a founder. Is it because you were like, no one's solving this, I have to solve it or no one will, or, or I can't wait for that to happen? Or did you always kind of want to build your own thing as well? How did it come about?

Sam Garven
For me, I never wanted to be a founder. Not that I didn't want to be a founder, but I had never been like, I'm gonna have my own company one day and be a founder. I'd never actually imagined that for myself. But through the work that I was doing at Grapevine, so I'm one of the co-founders of Grapevine with a bunch of other wonderful women in the startup and tech ecosystem, I really got to see where the gaps are in being like, why isn't there a way for someone to do this?

Sam Garven
And I looked into it and there's really not much out there in the way of misconduct reporting, psychosocial safety reporting. And so I was like, well, who's going to do that? And the answer was pretty obvious. I was like, well, why, why couldn't it be me? I started tinkering. I started looking at how it could possibly be solved.

Sam Garven
And then it sort of just happens. Like I almost like tripped and fell into being a founder because I started thinking of all the ways that this problem can be solved. And then Canopy was just born. And I have to say, now that I am a founder, and now that I'm starting to build Canopy, this is actually what I was meant to do.

Sam Garven
And I don't know how I didn't have this aha moment sooner, but I think it's because I didn't have the thing that I was so passionate about that I knew had to succeed. So a long way of saying, I didn't think I wanted to be a founder, but now that I am, that's all I want to do is be a founder.

Georgie
Incredible. Yeah. You do meet people that kind of go straight from uni to entrepreneur. And I'm just like, Whoa, that's like, it's a kind of risk element of, you know, starting your own thing and building from a blank sheet of paper and all of that I've been there to, um, and I totally know the intoxicating feel of being like, I'm going to build something that, that I, I have deep passion about and, and something that I have knowledge or experience in, but it's not, it's not an easy journey that aside, what, what exists in the startup ecosystem that might kind of touch upon this because to me, I've never heard of anything like canopy before.

Georgie
All I can think of is the HR roles and corporate structures of it, of a business and how they approach the bullying and harassment, you know, for lack of a better word, like topic, how does it get addressed? Like, tell me, tell me from an industry perspective versus a startup perspective. Like, I don't even know where to start with, with background knowledge on this.

Sam Garven
Yeah, you mean like how companies are doing it now without Canopy?

Georgie
Like, how do they do it?

Sam Garven
Yeah. So through the research that I've been doing, so I've been interviewing a ton of like heads of people and culture. There's different flavors in different businesses. Sometimes it is an anonymous inbox that an employee can send an email to that says, Hey, This thing happened to me.

Sam Garven
This is where, when, who, what, how happened. And I would like for it to be addressed. Sometimes employees are telling their manager and sometimes managers, they don't have all the answers and it's really hard being a people leader. And it's really hard being a people leader when you don't get the training on how to be a people leader.

Sam Garven
Cause it's not just that you're good at your job. Therefore you manage people. They're two completely different skills. So I've been hearing feedback from managers that are like, well, my employee tells me something has happened or they make a complaint. I don't want to overpromise, but I don't want to under promise.

Sam Garven
I don't actually know what to do about it. I do also know that some people teams in startups, they're like, well, I know everyone's first, middle, last name. And I know that people come to me. Some people are in bigger businesses and they're like, I know that people aren't coming to me because they don't even trust that our engagement surveys are anonymous.

Sam Garven
Why would they come to me? To make a complaint if that trust already isn't there. So there's a lot of different factors and I think businesses and HR teams are trying to solve it in lots of different ways, but they're almost having to hack their own system internally to find a way to support their people in this report-making process.

Sam Garven
There are admittedly some solutions out there at the moment, and a lot of them do address things like whistleblowing, because people Companies over a certain size need to have whistleblowing policy. They need to have a pathway for somebody to make a whistleblower complaint. But often whistleblowing is, I think, someone's committing fraud, or someone's laundering money, or it's something that feels really serious.

Sam Garven
And so for an employee who had their manager shout at them in a meeting, that doesn't feel like the right avenue. It almost feels like, well, that's It's not a big serious thing. So I won't report it. So I think there's just, there's some gaps there that whilst good intentions are had by the business to say, we want to know, you should tell us there's just not that mechanism.

Georgie
Yes. And on the startup side, when I think of HR tech, at least in Australia, which is where I'm familiar. I think of, um, like employment hero and like startups that will help you with hiring or, you know, time sheeting and even tax and things like that, uh, for SMBs, I don't know anything like Kanopy. Is there anything like it, or is this the, I'm leading the witness, but is it the first time I haven't heard of anything else or have you seen it done?

Georgie
Well,

Sam Garven
Yes, I'm not sure how much I want to go into naming all of my

Georgie
competitors, but you have seen it done before.

Sam Garven
Yeah, there are some companies who I would say are doing a good job.

Georgie
Yeah, I mean, there is a huge problem to be solved. I'm not surprised. So there are startups doing it. They're clearly just not name brand, or at least I'm not aware of them yet.

Georgie
So

Sam Garven
I think, I think it's really interesting that this is a problem that's not been solved yet. And I think there's a reason for that. I think when you come to, when you look at things like HR tech for holding all your employees data, we've got some legal and risks sort of things that you consider there.

Sam Garven
You've got HR tech for recruitment because recruitment is such a huge pain point and it's so crucial to a business being able to deliver, but you don't have it for this space because I don't think there was a spotlight being shown on it for a very long time. Right. Until all of a sudden we're starting to get legislation shining a light on businesses, responsibility to do good.

Sam Garven
You're starting to get employees and the media speaking up saying, Hey, you're not doing the right thing. And therefore you're going to be plastered on the front page. So there's a bit of a change in public sentiment around accountability. There's a change in legislation. There's going to be some new case law coming in.

Sam Garven
That's going to actually show how much it's going to cost businesses to do nothing. So there wasn't a real sense of urgency, which is why I think it's Nothing has been done by way of we'll call it innovating this space up until really recently. So the timing I think is going to be the really important thing, at least for us, it can be

Georgie
fantastic.

Georgie
Great market timing, then few tailwinds to, to make the most of, um, I get asked constantly about. My history going through accelerators. I, I quite liked accelerators. I did, um, a few, and I didn't have your background of actually having quite prestigious and, you know, amazing roles within the startup ecosystem before I started.

Georgie
And you've recently joined the tech stars accelerator when I worldwide best known, best, most prestigious, um, accelerators, but you've obviously had experience I'll ask you what people ask me a lot. How do you find being part of an accelerator?

Sam Garven
I love it. I told somebody the other day that it was the best decision I ever made for Canopy.

Sam Garven
Now, a caveat that was saying every accelerator is different. I think Techstars is different depending on what country that you go to, right? And so I think it all does come down to the specific accelerator program, but also the stage of your business and what you want to get out of it. So for me, I've never been a founder before.

Sam Garven
I'm a first time founder. I've been more of like an operational person. I'm a subject matter expert, but I'm not a product guru. I'm not technical. I have really visible gaps when it comes to building a tech company and building a tech company. That's Enabled by a I like I know there are gaps there. And so for me, joining tech stars was all about getting access to resources, getting access to knowledge, getting access to people that I otherwise wouldn't have gotten, or it would have taken me a long time to get on my own.

Sam Garven
Um, you know, dare I say it accelerated my ability to learn all these things. Um, the one surprising thing that I didn't. What I didn't anticipate coming into Techstars was the community of the actual cohort. So the other companies in the program with me and the program team as well. I've never worked around such a group of uniquely skilled individuals who are so passionate about helping each other out.

Sam Garven
I think every day I get so excited to go into the Techstars office because I know that I've got. This huge extended team of people to lean on who all have unique skills and unique ideas that can help me get stuck or unstuck so I can unstick me from from a rut. So I think that's been the real sort of, I suppose, jewel on the crown is the other people in the Accelerator program.

Sam Garven
However, Um, it's not for the faint of heart. I think I told you before we started this recording, I cried an hour ago because I'm very stressed, but I'm learning so much, but I cried in a good way, but there's just a lot, it is a lot, but that's the point of an accelerator program. You know, you were meant to rapidly grow your business and grow your knowledge of building a business.

Sam Garven
And that's not going to come without a little bit of pressure.

Georgie
It is confronting. I remember the one I did, it was basically like. Speed dating with 90 people and find your co-founder. And you're all kind of first learning how to pitch your company and pitch yourself. And I haven't been on dating apps cause I I'm ancient and found my partner before them.

Georgie
And I was like, this is a lot of skills at once that I'm trying to learn. I'm not very good at, and I had confidence before, but now I'm not sure. So it is, it is really full on, but I love what you said about. Yes, you've got, you've, you've clearly got an incredible network and you've clearly got incredible experiences and skills, but, but like, here's a huge gap and like, we're going to focus on that.

Georgie
And you're going to develop that like rapid pace and have a community out here that really wants you to succeed and wants you to win. So very, very articulately accessible. Um, we just had Annie from Build Club on the pod and she said there's a certain kind of founder persona that she now looks for. Now there's a very, very, very early stage ai, um, accelerator for people that dunno.

Georgie
Do you think there are certain kinds of people that are right for accelerators regardless of skill, background, personality will.

Sam Garven
I wouldn't say there's like a particular persona. I would say it's more a particular mindset is probably the best way to describe it. We're lucky enough at Techstars for 12 accelerator programs to be completely women-founded or at least have one women co-founder.

Sam Garven
We've got all types of people from all different backgrounds. We've got a couple to coin a phrase being thrown around by a few neuro spicy people. Um, Transcribed Their term, not mine, but I absolutely love it. So I wouldn't say there's a particular kind of person. Um, but I would say it's the mindset that's really important.

Sam Garven
Every single person came in being like, this is going to be hard, but we want to lean into it and we want to lean into it really hard. And we want to stay consistent in how we show up and how we learn and how we support each other. So I think that's the most important part is saying like, it's going to be hard and that's okay.

Sam Garven
And I'm coming in here with an open mind and I can be a little bit malleable. And I've got. You know, strong opinions loosely held that are going to be challenged. So that mindset is really important. Whereas I don't think it's like a particular. You know, kind of person, um, you know, demographic background skills experience.

Sam Garven
It's more about like the brain, the brain that they're bringing in, um, and, and how shapeable it is and how open to feedback criticism challenges that it is.

Georgie
Amazing. It kind of brings me like that kind of scrappiness to something I've noticed definitely in the last recent months and year is this.

Georgie
Building in public persona, like, I don't know if this is still the cool done thing, but years ago, when I was trying to build, it was this stealth mode was seen as being like, wow, it must be really, if it's quiet, it must be exclusive and special. And now it's like almost the opposite of that. If you're building in public, you you're, you you're confident enough that, you know, it's something that you're at least semi proud of.

Georgie
What's your take on building in public as someone who is literally building right now?

Sam Garven
Do it, come out of stealth mode, knock that off. No, I think, um, I think there's lots of different reasons people build in stealth mode. For me, building in public is free marketing. Like, why am I not taking my Potential customers and advocates on the journey with me and saying, this is what I've learned, or here's the things that I believe.

Sam Garven
And because I believe that alas, here's canopy, like people buy from founders. Especially when you're early stages, people buy from me because I am canopy, but I am the product. I am the marketing. I am the product. I am the face of it. And so the more I'm building in public, the more I'm being vulnerable, the more I'm sharing my motivations about why I'm doing it.

Sam Garven
You know, doing what I'm doing for canopy, the more it's going to create that brand strength and that brand awareness. And so when I am ready to say I've got an MVP or I'm looking for pilot customers, which I am, um, you know, I already have that brand and I have that strength and I'm not starting from zero.

Sam Garven
By coming out real punchy and saying I'm out of stealth mode. And again, I want to, I want to caveat that we're saying people are in stealth mode sometimes because they're building a competitor brand. Right. And I think that can be really cool and really, and really exciting when you do come out of stealth.

Sam Garven
But for me, building in a space that no one is really focused on quite heavily yet, it's really important to take everyone on that journey.

Georgie
Oh, I love it. So, so any, any tips for other people that are a little shy or a bit risk averse or, you know, you know that people that won't even. Publish things on LinkedIn that they're proud of because they're a little bit scared of how to go about it or how to first take that first step to sharing any, any tips for those kinds of founders.

Georgie
Embrace the cringe. LinkedIn

Sam Garven
is cringy and we know it. Um, but also you'd be really surprised the amount of people that believe the same thing that you believe or are going through the same struggle that you have. I think I posted something. Um, like a month ago that said a pitch deck has humbled me and like, I don't know what I'm doing.

Sam Garven
And I thought I did when it came to a pitch deck and I was sort of half joking, but also really serious. And a ton of people I'd never met before, but like, Oh my gosh, me too. I, the struggle is real. And so it's these little things, these little moments where I wasn't overthinking. And I was actually just like, Hey, here's a share about something that I'm feeling, or I'm struggling that I'm seeing that really resonate with.

Sam Garven
Just everyday people on LinkedIn, and if you can't do that, and if you're afraid to post comments, you know, comment on the people's posts that like you really respect and that you really like and get yourself involved in the conversation. I think that's a really nice step to then going out and posting about it yourself.

Sam Garven
Once you feel that people aren't coming for me when I'm commenting, this is actually okay.

Georgie
I love this, um, embrace the cringe is the title of this podcast as of now. No, it's not. But I love it. Love it. Okay. A bit of a different track now. You've obviously got an ever so slight accent, but you're getting more Aussie by the day.

Georgie
I'm sensing Sam. I'm curious about the Australian startup ecosystem. And how it, how it's perceived outside of Australia. Like this is something that I haven't been able to ask anyone before.

Sam Garven
So I'm Canadian. I've been in Australia for 11, probably going on 12 years now. Um, so I've not actually lived back in North America for a long, I'm not lived in Canada for 15 years.

Sam Garven
So I've not been in North America for, for quite some time. But The thing that I really noticed when I came to Australia that is so unique to its culture and particularly startup is tall poppy syndrome. Like it's so uniquely, it's so uniquely Australian and I think particularly As a woman building a startup, trying to tackle AI while building my startup, it's very easy for people to say, like, no, we don't like that.

Sam Garven
Or this person's getting too big for their britches. And I, and I think that is something that is really uniquely Australian. And it's such a shame to see, you know, once we have people who have reached these, like the height of success, right. We've got like Mel Perkins, right. We all talk about Mel Perkins and she is wonderful and she's done great things, but like.

Sam Garven
You know, it took her a while to actually get there. And what's probably the adversity that she faced along the way. And I know there's a handful of other women founders out there who are experiencing that tall poppy syndrome, right? Like they're seeing a lot of success. And because of that, people are nitpicking and looking for reasons to, you know, chop them down.

Sam Garven
And I know the same can be said for, for men as well, but I find it particularly challenging. As a woman in this space, trying to throw some elbows to, to be like, no, no, make space for us. But the second that you, you know, slip up and you're like, Oh, I am imperfect. People are really quick to focus on that rather than like focus on How you're trying to fix it or how you're trying to move on, which I think can come back to the point of building in public and make that like really scary as well, right?

Sam Garven
You're committing to something publicly, but then you screw up. You're also doing that publicly, which can feel like you've taken 100 steps forward. And now, like, what's it all been for? If you do mess up in public.

Georgie
Uh, two really important points there. The, the tall poppy syndrome with Australia and also the female rhetoric to, to make herself smaller and to be demure and mindful and all of this stuff that seems to be celebrated, you know, don't be bossy, don't be loud.

Georgie
Coupled with that Australian, don't be too big for your britches, really, really hard to be a female founder, like the fact we won't even call ourselves CEOs because it sounds too much like an asshole, but you are essentially how, how are you addressing that? And do you find that the women in tech stars help because you're all kind of, no, no, no, you can talk and no, no, no, I want to hear what you're trying to say.

Sam Garven
Oh, 1000%. Sorry. I jumped on that right away. And I say, sorry too much. And someone shouted at someone else in tech stars the other day because she apologized. For having an emotion because that is there is that, you know, I shouldn't have that emotion. I shouldn't feel this way, but me crying in public an hour before this podcast in front of a bunch of people is something I wouldn't have ever done until this cohort of feeling really safe.

Sam Garven
Um, I think another thing that I'm trying to lean hard into is surrounding myself with other women in this space. So I'm part of a WhatsApp group that is a bunch of women founders. Um, I'm constantly trying to connect other women founders because that's what other women founders have been doing for me.

Sam Garven
Um, and so I think there's this like. The one superpower I think women have is we are super connectors. We're always trying to find ways to like grab each other and put people together and say, I think you guys should meet or you should do this and come together or let's get dinner or let's grab coffee.

Sam Garven
And so leaning really into that to create my community and my network. Has been instrumental and to, to me feeling like, yes, I can do this. I think when I first announced that I was building canopy, I got connected to, I'd say about 15 founders who were like, Oh, you should connect with these founders. And 13 of them were women.

Sam Garven
And so I think that's just a really powerful thing for me to see coming into this when I'm really doubting myself to see other women sprinting ahead and doing that. And so continuously surrounding myself. And then trying to bring others in, I think, is the best way to sort of create that ripple effect.

Georgie
Oh, hello, gorgeous cat. I have never heard, and this is something so clever. This women are natural connectors. That's what my job is, by the way. Like we are so good at networking and so good at connecting and it's something that brings us a lot of joy. We're also really good at it. If that's not critical for building a startup, I don't know what is.

Georgie
So leaning into that inherent skillset as females. In this role in Sonnets Pictures. So male dominated. It's such a great take, Sam. I've never, I've never heard of it, but. Well, look at the community collective,

Sam Garven
right? That Paz and I've never, um, I think, you know, I've, I've seen her at events and I had the chance to meet her, but the feedback in what she's doing is so incredible, but super connector, right?

Sam Garven
It is, it's like a, it's a superpower that, you know, a lot of us have.

Georgie
Truly very insightful. One final thing on the talk Poppy sings, Joanne, because it is something that I think. I think is becoming increasingly discussed, but definitely not solved. You'll even see in presentation styles, the American presenter will be like, we're going to change the world.

Georgie
And then I don't know if it's the colonial British style, which is like, we've got a product and it might be okay. And then Australia kind of falls in the middle. Um, what's your approach when you pitch, do you have to actively force yourself to be a little bit more. American. I don't know, I don't know what better word for it, Sam.

Sam Garven
I think that when I pitch, I'm incredibly passionate about what I'm doing. And I try not to stifle that. I really try and just let it flow out of me. However, I am very conscious that. The topic of harassment the topic of psychosocial safety is something that at least on the harassment front women experience More than men, but when we talk about psychosocial safety for thinking about the construction industry, which is really male dominated there is a huge problem in construction with psychosocial safety and And not enough people are talking about it.

Sam Garven
But where I'm starting is with my tech community and what I know, and mostly women, at least according to the data are the ones who are most impacted. So it's almost like I'm really passionate about it, and I want to talk about it all the time and tell everyone and pitch it. But I also have to be really aware that people aren't seeing this problem the same way that I am.

Sam Garven
Or some people aren't even seeing it as a problem at all. So there's this huge piece around education. I think that I need to be really mindful of when I am going and saying canopy is going to solve your problems. And some people say what problem? So there's an education piece that needs to, I think, really come to the forefront and start to be talked about more before The pitch is going to land with everyone the way that I hope it lands.

Georgie
Yeah. Very relatable. Like just growing up in the 2000s, uh, and the songs that were released and things like that, where you're like, I'm not comfortable with it, but I'm not even aware why. And then you come back and you're like, we put up with that, didn't we? And, and it's wild to think that we did like, just, yeah.

Georgie
How a movement can. Can re-educate you in and of itself. Okay. Getting into some dryer technical, if, if you'll allow me, you know, you touched upon the different kinds of industries that you can target, but the way you target them has to be unique. Um, when it comes to, to metrics. What, what do you do in this very early stage of building your startup in a space that I would argue is, you know, quite revolutionary in some ways.

Georgie
What metrics do you look for or will you look forward to know if you're on the

Sam Garven
right path right now? It's all about. Asking questions and getting answers. That is my number. One metric is how many questions can I get answered? So that's questions about how I set up my product, how people will interact with my product.

Sam Garven
What are the problems that employees in tech have? What are the problems that? Employees in construction and mining have, um, just looking for where's that data overlapping to know that I've got the strongest case for actually solving for it when I have, you know, MVP and when we make iterations on that also, because we should be talking about as well, um, is that the questions that I'm asking are around.

Sam Garven
Is this something that is going to solve? So, when someone makes a report. Is AI going to solve that? Or is AI going to assist that? Or is AI going to hamper that person in making a report? There's a lot of really critical questions when it comes to, I think, how I think about AI in Canopy. And there's Is canopy a product that has AI at the heart of it and everything that does, or is canopy its own standalone product that is assisted by AI to make it easier to use or more user friendly or more insightful?

Sam Garven
And I would say it's the latter, right? I think it's a More defensible as well. When you say we're solving a really unique problem because we deeply understand it and the product uniquely solves for it. And we also have AI that's going to help you do it better. It's going to help people feel more safe or have more information.

Sam Garven
So those are all the questions that I'm asking as well. Not just how do I build this product? And what are the features? But What's A. I. S. role hit in all of that. And do we need it in some parts of the product? Um, and if yes, to what extent and what's A. I. Capable of now versus in a year's time trying to Predict the future a little bit, which is going to be a little bit difficult, but like use case planning, how much AI is, is cooked into, you know, the heart and soul of the product.

Georgie
Yeah. Um, like a term that's thrown around a lot in my parts is like AI first versus like an AI feature and there's no right or wrong, but it is really interesting how many startups. Think that if they just bolt AI on, it'll help. But clearly you're figuring out it, is this an AI product that is supportive here or there, and you're getting as much data as possible before you implement kind of thing, which is, which is fantastic by the way.

Sam Garven
I think rightfully so every company who is looking at AI and look, this is something that I've had challenged a lot, which I've loved when people say, well, why do you even need AI? Could you not do this without? And I'm like, that's a great question. And then I write it down and then I go and figure out how to validate for that.

Sam Garven
And that's like the most important thing before I say like, yeah, cool, let's you know, let's, let's make it center, the centerpiece of what it is that we're doing. Like, am I asking the right questions? Because I can't afford to get it wrong.

Georgie
Yeah, yeah, you do not want to have to start over. Is canopy, and maybe add this to your list, is canopy a vertical AI solution in that it's, you know, very domain specific in HR, in harassment, in bullying, that could help a certain industry and it has to look different for others, or are you trying to make it horizontal, that canopies can be used in any industry?

Georgie
But, but it's kind of in and of itself a standalone product.

Sam Garven
I think for now, more of a vertical in that I don't want to build everything for everyone because then I'll have nothing, right? So what I want to do right now is focus on a particular part of, let's say, we'll call it tech, right? Employees who are laptop base, they're relatively predictable in their workplace environments.

Sam Garven
They're not like off delivering food or slinging drinks at a bar or with somewhere that doesn't even have cell or Internet service, right? Like, we know how employees are going to interact. We know that we only need desktop. We know the employee awards that they're under, which is a very HR thing. But this is a space that we know, right?

Sam Garven
We can make these sorts of predictions about how people will interact with the product that we can be pretty certain of. And then from there, how do we take 80 percent of canopy? And then lift and shift. And now we're like, okay, great. We're now in hospitality. But what's unique to hospitality is employees are slinging drinks.

Sam Garven
They're running from table to table. They're not sitting in front of a laptop. So what are the things we need to consider for them? They even might be casuals. They may be students, right? There's all these different things to consider about how they would interact with their product. Do we need to make a phone call?

Sam Garven
If something's happened, do they need to send a text? And that's the way of making a report. So I think there's going to be a lot of nuance to how the individual or the employee will use it to make sure that the business and the people teams. Actually have the right data and really meaningful data around these reports to do something about that.

Sam Garven
So I don't think we can lift and shift 100%. But I do think 80 percent of what we're looking to build is going to be applicable across all sorts of different industries.

Georgie
Amazing cognizant of the fact that I'm slinging questions at you while you're probably dealing with this on a minute to minute by like basis.

Georgie
But I'd be remiss to not ask you about such a sensitive topic and privacy. Have you guys started thinking about that and, and how to go about it? Like, I'd love to hear your, your initial take on that.

Sam Garven
Privacy keeps me up at night. Um, it's the one thing that I know We can't get wrong. So the whole ship something, you know, even though you hate it, or you should be ashamed of the first product that you ship.

Sam Garven
We don't have that luxury. We deal in such sensitive information and data that we can't afford to break trust and call it a whoopsie and then go and fix something in the back end. That's just not how it's going to work, especially when it comes to data security and privacy. So thinking about things like, Sock to thinking about all of the different unique data security and privacy things that will need to bake into the product.

Sam Garven
Because really, it's our ticket to play. I'm thinking a lot about that. And when we're looking at building on our MVP, let's say we're using no code, low code solutions. Are they already sock to compliant? Like, what are the things that we can say? Well, we're building. Do we know that all of the tools that we're building on have these compliance things already baked in?

Sam Garven
So thinking about that really early, because then as we do start to scale and go more into like enterprise, we'll have to start thinking about the things we're doing ourselves. Um, to become compliant. But as long as we we know the how to approach it, what the best practice is, the tools that we're bringing into assist us to make sure that we're always thinking security privacy first, like, that's has to be front of mind for everything that we're doing.

Sam Garven
Sorry. We're not going to ever compromise on saying like, oh, well, let's just get it done and we'll figure it out later. Like, no, let's think about security now and is what we're doing safe for people. Um, so it's, it's and look as we're, as we're going, we're going to have to be like tweaking and making sure that we're always checking back in on it.

Sam Garven
But it's like the number one thing that I have in my mind whenever I'm thinking about how we actually build.

Georgie
Incredible. And you've touched upon this before about, um, gathering data and having all these questions. At what point are you like, we're good. We've got sufficient amount of data or sufficient kinds of data.

Georgie
How are you approaching that?

Sam Garven
Yeah. When do I finally get to hit go? Um, I think I can't really answer that question right now. Perhaps it's when. Um, every time a question asked doesn't result in five more falling out the bottom. Um, every question that I asked five more pop up six more, seven more pop out.

Sam Garven
And I think once we sort of stop the leaky bucket of questions coming out, and we know that we've answered the most important, important hypothesis. We know that the, you know, building this sort of bare minimum meets the things that are, are our users and our customers and our buyers and our decision makers are asking for.

Sam Garven
Thank you very much. Then we'll hit go and go from there. So it's not really an answer that I have at the moment, but it's, I've got too many that I've got to work through at the moment and prioritize to, to even see a light at the end of the tunnel just yet.

Georgie
Yeah. And Sam, you're across everything. I've talked about privacy, data, people building a product, you know, But, but at a certain point, I'm sure you want to expand your team.

Georgie
One of the roles that are the most critical for canopy. And one of the roles that are most critical for an AI startup. I'm, I'm starting to think CTO, like talk me through that.

Sam Garven
So in next year, so this will be a next year thing, but engineering, I'm not technical, my co-founder, Emma is not technical. We need somebody technical, but that'll be a next year thing that we look to do.

Sam Garven
Um, and again, there's so many amazing, like no code, low code solutions that are out there that we'll look to utilize until then, but engineer very likely product design as well, because there's a lot of user experience considerations about the journey of somebody through our platform and. Making sure that on the worst day of their life, people can report easily and the people in culture on the other side, they've got the things that they need that are the most important to solving this for this person right away.

Sam Garven
So I think those would probably be the two at the beginning of the year that, that we'll be looking at. Um, likely once we look into potentially raising a bit of capital, that's the thing that will happen next.

Georgie
Fascinating. I mean, I work a little bit more with the seed and series a. Um, non-technical founders and, you know, and then they've hired the engineering team.

Georgie
And I, I see the finished product of an amazing team. They've already got their AI engineer and blah, blah, blah. But the path that you're on is quite fascinating and how to find them and, um, You know, it's, it's just something that I think people that would love to build an AI solution that don't have engineering background, that journey and following what you do is interesting.

Georgie
Compelling.

Sam Garven
Yeah. You can still do it. I didn't think that I was going to be able to build something on my own, especially in the space of air, especially as someone from HR, once you start doing it, you're like, wow, I actually can do it. And this is something that there's so many amazing tools and support and people out there that there's actually nothing That's stopping me right now, at least in this exact moment.

Sam Garven
Now, what's going to stop me was when I actually need a full blown product, but there's nothing stopping me right now in this moment to get me to the next step of where I need to be.

Georgie
Yeah. And who better to do the interviews and to know like a perfect fit for a company, right?

Sam Garven
Like I've got, I've got my own in house recruiter of myself.

Georgie
Yeah. She's, she doesn't charge extra.

Sam Garven
She's very free right now. I assure you

Georgie
she's so cheap. Okay. So future, like thinking, you know, um, hate being a consultant, but you're Northstar, what does canopy look like in, you know, 10 years, what's your dream vision for the company? Does everyone have it?

Sam Garven
Oh my gosh.

Sam Garven
Okay. Stop me if I'm talking for too long, but North Star for Canopy is, we're a global company. This is a problem that is not unique to Australia. This is a problem being felt everywhere, all across the world by employees. So being A global company who is uniquely positioned to help those individuals who are speaking different languages who have different policy and legislation and all of like the really dry stuff, but that's there to support employees, making sure that global teams and people have access to canopy.

Sam Garven
Additionally, I also see this being a much bigger play past businesses. How are we looking into things like, you know, is canopy in event spaces? I would love that. I would love for canopy to be in schools to be able to support kids making a report about being bullied, which is such a huge problem or children having children having deep fakes.

Sam Garven
Made about them. They're not telling a teacher that is mortifying, but it's a horrible experience. And so I would love for canopy to be there to be able to help kids feel safer in schools when something horrible is happening to them. I just think the use case for people wanting to feel safe and wanting to say something.

Sam Garven
It's just, it's everywhere. And so You know, my North Star in 10 years is like, how are we everywhere to make people feel safe at work, at school, at events, at places where there's like professional memberships or gatherings? Like, how can we show up for somebody when they're having a really tough time to make them feel like they have a way?

Sam Garven
To speak up, to tell somebody and to actually be able to get that support and get that attention to Have the right thing done by them and that's what I see in 10 years

Georgie
I need to stop making this about me. But wow if I yeah, i'm happy for my children that this is being built I'll say that much Um, are you looking for vc investment or is that something that you're not?

Georgie
Your head's not in that right now.

Sam Garven
I'm snooping around. I think it's something that I would look, I think it's something that we'll be looking into next year. Right now. I'm just like, right. What's like, I'm laser focused on MVP validation, answering all these, these problems. But, um, you know, I'm also no stranger to knowing, like, you need money to like, have people and to build a business.

Sam Garven
And so, I'm starting to have a few conversations right now, but I'll be looking to kick it up a notch. I think at the start of the year and test the waters of what that could look like.

Georgie
Amazing. So I always like to finish the blink of an eye podcast with some rapid fire questions. I think something you just tell me the first thing that pops into your head.

Georgie
Summer spicy, summer not spicy. How does that sound?

Sam Garven
Sounds

Georgie
good. Canadian winter or Australian summer? Oh, oh no, they're both terrible. Um, oh,

Sam Garven
Australian summer.

Georgie
Okay. Are you buying into the Zuckerberg renaissance with his open AI, open source AI?

Sam Garven
I find it so hard to bind a Zuck full stop, like, I'm a fence setter.

Sam Garven
Ask me later. But we'll catch up in a year.

Georgie
Favorite chatbot? Gemini? ChatGPT? Meta? Other?

Sam Garven
Oooh. I'm a Gemini girly at the moment, um, having a little play around, but I love the competitiveness that they all have with each other. So like, keep trying to outdo each other. Let's see what else you guys can come up with.

Georgie
You're like, I'm not married to any of you yet.

Sam Garven
I'm definitely happy to like, you know, I don't know what the right word would it be, but like play the field. That's what it is.

Georgie
Um, I know the answer to this stealth mode or by building out loud.

Sam Garven
Yes. Loud. As loud as possible.

Georgie
Loud. Did I make that? No, no.

Sam Garven
I think that's better.

Sam Garven
It's not just building in public. It's building as loudly as possible.

Georgie
Yep. Amazing. Um, and finally, The platform's yours to share anything you'd like to share about canopy. How, how can people get involved? How can they start playing with the products?

Sam Garven
Okay, great. So first and foremost, we have a wait list. I would love for people to sign up to the wait list, but I'm also looking to speak to as many people as possible.

Sam Garven
So if you are an executive, if you are a director, if you are a head of PNC, if you are a manager, if you are an employee, if you are a person, I want to speak to you about canopy. I need to know as much as I possibly can because I'm building this product. For people who work in companies, which I would argue is quite a few people.

Sam Garven
So I just want to make sure I'm speaking to as many people as possible to build this in the right way possible. So that would probably be my, my biggest ask is reach out to me. Let's have a conversation because I'm building this for you.

Georgie
Ah, Sam, thank you so much for chatting to me. I absolutely love to learning about building out loud, the Techstars Accelerator about canopy.

Georgie
Embracing the cringe, all of it. Thank you so much. I hope you enjoyed the chat as well. Yes, I did. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Thanks, Sam.

Georgie
for listening to in the blink of a eye, you can check out the show notes for anything discussed in this week's episode, and we will be back next week. This podcast was produced by day one. With music by Dan Hanson and visual artwork by Sophie Tyrell. If you loved the episode, please tell your mates and I love AI news.