Transcript Synced · select any line to jump ▾ 0:00 Román Olivera: This is just files and folders, really. 0:02 Zachary King: I still get a kick about all this magical shit just runs on text files. 0:05 Román Olivera: I actually turn off the memory. 0:07 Zachary King: Oh, do you? Interesting. You go that far. 0:09 Román Olivera: You know why? Yeah, I went that far because then it tries to get ahead of itself. And in my context, I need the agent to read the rules. 0:19 Zachary King: Yep. 0:20 Román Olivera: You gotta be a big boss from the '80s now. Yeah, I love it. Or the '70s or whatever that was. 0:23 Zachary King: Yeah, I'm gonna get a sharp suit and a skinny tie. Well, that, or I've pictured some others as well, like, Operator AI is proudly part of the Day One Podcast Network with more great shows at dayone.fm. Welcome to Operator AI, the show where real operators share their screens and show you how they work, actually work with AI. I'm Zachary King and I run Worx. Every fortnight, somebody doing real work walks me through the real stack, not the hype, just the receipts. Let's get to work. Today we're joined by Roman Oliveira from Auburn Labs, who opens up the agent brain that he built from ordinary files, and he shows us how from Codex and Claude they can pick up the same context without him having to explain himself from scratch. Okay, mate, now I'm going to pull a line because I've seen you present this before and it's freaking amazing. You said before that when AI fails to give us what we need, it's usually our fault, not the AI. Do you still stand by that? 1:26 Román Olivera: I think it's even more now, man. Like, uh, yeah, everybody that's saying like, ah, you know, I think AI is a, you know, it's a bit of a thing that's just going to go away. I don't like, no, not really. You know, it's even like, I think every day is more here to stay clearly. And yeah, it's just a matter of knowing how to use it, I think. 1:49 Zachary King: Yeah, 100%, man. Whenever I, whenever I hear that, uh, that line about how AI doesn't work, it's not here yet. And I was like, come on, man. Like, seriously, yeah, yeah, it's a skill issue. 1:59 Román Olivera: It's crazy because it's actually like anybody that's actually using it properly, that's gotten into it, you just need one little spark, right? 2:07 Zachary King: That's right. 2:07 Román Olivera: And then you're in it. 2:08 Zachary King: Yeah. 2:09 Román Olivera: But anybody that's using it like that, you know, they know that it's this crazy thing that sucks you in, man. 2:17 Zachary King: Totally. And I love that everyone's aha moment comes at a different time. But there is a time where, you know, you hit that spark, you hit that, oh my God, look at what this thing can do. And, you know, it takes work. Like, it takes a bit of time to get in there and you got to set it up right, which is, you know, what we're going to dig into today. So, mate, tell us a little bit about Project Flatfish. It's Flatfish, right? 2:39 Román Olivera: Yeah, Flatfish. It was a Fish system to start. 2:41 Zachary King: That's right. I remember what it was. I remember back when it was Fish. Yeah, that's like 6 months ago, man. That's like 10 years in AI. 2:46 Román Olivera: I know, man. It's crazy. It's like I've lived with this thing forever, but it's only been this year. Yeah, it started writing about it in November, just as an idea, because I was going crazy with the shiny new thing. What was happening, it was like every time I'd start a new project and then something happened and I had to leave it to the side, actually do my real work. 3:15 Zachary King: I had to go back and do my day job. Yeah. 3:19 Román Olivera: And then And I had to come back to it and I couldn't remember which one it was. It was full of folders and like, which one was the last version? And I didn't really remember exactly where we stood, you know, like what exactly were we doing here? You know, because some of those things were just, you know, toy projects. 3:38 Zachary King: Just top of the head. Yeah, that sounds cool. I saw a tweet. Let's do that. Or I saw a YouTube video, more in your case. 3:44 Román Olivera: Yeah, YouTube. Yeah. And so, yeah, I mean, it was, it was that thing that kind of triggered me to think about like, there's got to be a way to get around this. Started writing about it in November a little bit. And then I went on holidays in December and, uh, and we're away like in an island and— 4:02 Zachary King: Like pen and paper, right? Yeah. 4:05 Román Olivera: And the phone a little bit. Notes and recording. That's my thing now. I like recording so easy. So I recorded a bunch of stuff, came back. and started like actually putting it in, like putting it all together. 4:17 Zachary King: And when you were recording then, that was just voice notes? 4:20 Román Olivera: Yeah, just voice notes. 4:21 Zachary King: Yeah, just voicemail. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 4:23 Román Olivera: And then came back, kind of put it together. And then it was like, oh man, like this, this actually, you know, this actually works. 4:31 Zachary King: This works. 4:32 Román Olivera: I thought it was going to be one of the other projects, like, you know, just, you know, one more. But no, man, it's been, it's been all whatever. It's September now. So— 4:41 Zachary King: Now it's the project that runs all other projects. 4:43 Román Olivera: It's the thing that runs Everything in my, yeah, my computer, my company pretty much. Yeah, I use that to run everything. 4:52 Zachary King: Yeah. Nice. All right, man. Well, let's get into it, man. Show us this amazing thing and talk us through what it is at its current state and we'll dig into how it came about. 5:01 Román Olivera: So I'll explain what it is in a second, but okay, I don't need to explain what it is. It's just files and folders really. You know, it's files and folders. 5:12 Zachary King: I still get a kick about all this magical shit just runs on text files. That's all it is. 5:17 Román Olivera: what it is, right? 5:17 Zachary King: Right. 5:17 Román Olivera: But there's a bit of a setup there, right? And then the whole idea is, if everything's just files and folders, which, just think about anything you do in, if you're sitting on a computer, software, presentations, it doesn't matter what it is, it's just files and folders, right? And then the aha moment that you mentioned before, for me, was in all those iterations of projects that I was telling you about before and opening new ones and new ones and new versions of that because I lost the other one. One thing that I realized, whenever you open a Cursor project, you know, you went to Cursor, which was in VS Code, you know, it's different now. 5:56 Zachary King: VS Code with a wrapper, yeah, yeah. 5:58 Román Olivera: So every time you start working with any of these tools, you're choosing which folder you're gonna work on, right? So that was the first thing. It was like, well, I couldn't really get that. But then if I started on my, root folder, because I didn't pay attention to that. I remember this big alert from, from Cursor in that case saying, are you sure you want to give me access to your whole system? I was like, whoa, that sounds bad. 6:28 Zachary King: That sounds scary. 6:29 Román Olivera: It's not, right? I guess. But then that got me thinking, what exactly are we doing here, right? Are you giving access to the model to a folder? And then came Cursor Rules, you know, that was kind of the first thing. 6:43 Zachary King: Yeah. 6:44 Román Olivera: Okay, well, Cursor Rules. 6:46 Zachary King: Personalize it. 6:47 Román Olivera: It was all about, like, in that moment, it was all about software, right? How do you write your software? And like, so I used it because, you know, everyone here was using it and they told us how to use it and whatever. But like, I feel really lucky to be in an environment that, you know, kind of has a bunch of people around us that help us. But I didn't really know what I was doing, honestly, like using it. I never understood what exactly was happening until Claude. And it was very clear that you had to, like, you have your claude.md file, right? 7:16 Zachary King: Yep. 7:16 Román Olivera: Which is every time you drop an agent into a folder, first thing it's gonna do is go read its rules, right? 7:25 Zachary King: Yep. 7:25 Román Olivera: Which is like this claude.md file in, now in Codex, this agents.md file, right? And so Anyway, that's the rules that the agent's looking for. If it doesn't have them, then it's just gonna act as a universal thing that, you know, without specificity on your topic or on the thing that it's going into. So that was, for me, the aha moment going like, wait, we're really just giving access to the model, the agent in this case, into this folder and it's looking for rules to know how to act. And everything you do is files and folders. So if I'm managing my invoices, there's a folder, you know, might maybe called invoices. And then all the invoices are there. And when I go there, or if I was hiring someone to do that work, I'd have to explain How do we work in that folder, right? I have to go and say, well, whenever I ask you to like, you know— 8:29 Zachary King: When invoice comes in, a new one drops here, do that. Yeah. 8:32 Román Olivera: Do this, do that. So it's an employee that you're bringing in to do the thing. Or if you're doing it, you do it, you don't probably think about it, but you have a set of steps that you're doing. That's your invoices. But then you have your software that you're creating, right? Like a little dashboard for something. And you have your webpage and they're all folders. folders and files scattered in your computer. And I think maybe you're like me and many other people in which like we've all had this productivity system we created, right? 9:08 Zachary King: Yep. 9:09 Román Olivera: And I know I've created a million productivity systems over my life, you know, just to kind of get around some issue that's like at work. Oh man, I gotta fix this. And I thought it was very clever. And then I 2 weeks later, I couldn't— 9:22 Zachary King: Not using it anymore. Yeah. 9:24 Román Olivera: I couldn't remember if it was a dash or an underscore or the naming system, and you just break it, right? And you break it. But the beauty now is that you have these employees, if you want to call them that, that can do the thing as you defined it. You don't even have to remember. You just need to define the thing. I mean, at least you need to define the thing in my mind, right? Like, some people are not even defining it. At least think about it once, right? Go deep into it. Like I was saying, like, I wrote about the thing, thought about it, set it up, and now it runs. So, every one of these systems, every one of these procedures, processes that we're following, we'll spend the time, write it down. And then if you're going to hire someone, explain it. Well, that hiring someone now is the agent, right? 10:20 Zachary King: Yeah. 10:20 Román Olivera: You're getting into these folders. So very long-winded way to say the system, all it does is uses files and folders. Every file that matters, if you want to make an intelligent file, an intelligent folder, sorry, you just give it rules and then the agent knows what to do. Every folder in your system, in your computer, could have its rules, and then the agent's gonna know exactly what to do, right? There's a little bit of understanding around that, but that's the basics, right? 10:51 Zachary King: Yep. 10:51 Román Olivera: And then there's all the stuff they added to it, but I'll show you how it works then. So let's say that, so if it's an intelligent folder, then I call it a node. And for it to be a node, it has to follow the protocol of the Fish system, which is, set of rules and then the state, the current state, what's happening here, right? Because that was the other question that I always had. 11:15 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, where are we at with that? 11:18 Román Olivera: What was I doing? 11:18 Zachary King: Last time I was talking to this was 3 AM on Friday morning and I had 20 different threads going. Exactly. Where are we at with this? 11:24 Román Olivera: Okay, so let's say that we're gonna make a project for this that we're doing right now. Let's type for now, create a node. For the podcast with Zach, right? No, uh, no punctuation anymore, man. No, no, that's all gone. 11:43 Zachary King: It's got me like a Gen Z. 11:45 Román Olivera: Yeah, yeah. Uh, call it, uh, Podcast with Zach. Create an HTML presentation about how the Flatfish. I can just say that because it knows. That's the beauty of this thing. You just stop saying, stop giving specific instructions about the Flatfish and how it works, right? Use the, I have several designs. And if I'm gonna, you know, using a specific client and I have a design for that client and things like that. But in this case, I'm gonna say use the Urban. I don't say, I don't need to say last. I just say the Orban artifact design system. Well, let's let it run. And it's running on Luna Max, not like a cheapy, right? It could be running on whatever. So anyway, we'll let it run for now and see what it does. 12:48 Zachary King: Mate, your point there around, you know, it was the folder structures in Cursor that got you thinking about that. is a really interesting one. So for me, it was Claude Code when I started. Yeah, what project do you wanna start in? 13:02 Román Olivera: Yeah. 13:02 Zachary King: This one, this one. I was like, hang on, what do you have access to? And how does that work? And how do you read back up to a root directory? And yeah, that was my villain origin story with folders, but I hadn't really thought about it. And the structure that I use, and we've kind of touched on this before, and the one that I use for works with clients is very similar. Get the architecture right, You know, get the context in there. We call it company brain, uh, and then, you know, build on top of that as your, as your kind of foundational layer. 13:30 Román Olivera: But it's probably like everything, right? Like if you're just learning maths and, and all of a sudden you don't know how to subtract, then, then it's like, well, yeah, that's easy, but it wasn't easy before. 13:41 Zachary King: No, 100%. Because there is like, there are no templates, there are no guidebooks, there are no 10-year veterans in this. It's a 10-week veteran. Yeah, I've been doing it for a while, nearly 3 months. I love the simplicity of your structure. It's very modular, like it's very atomized. It's like, yep, here's the structure for every project. This is what it looks like. You've got consistency in there. I love it. 14:03 Román Olivera: I call it that fractal, right? So it's like a fractal system because every file, every folder is exactly the same as any other folder. So I have a CRM. My CRM is a folder in my— I actually had a proper CRM that I paid for, you know. 14:22 Zachary King: So you actually did. You lived the meme. You rolled your own CRM. 14:26 Román Olivera: But the crazy thing is I didn't. I just used files and folders, man. I didn't actually build anything. 14:33 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 14:34 Román Olivera: You know, and I think as the models get better and better, you need less of that structure, you know. And I think we're in an era of projects of one, you know, like client, one client, you know, you're your own client, you're doing your own thing. 14:50 Zachary King: Yeah. 14:51 Román Olivera: You create the concept and it takes its own life. 14:57 Zachary King: You build a construct. 14:58 Román Olivera: Yeah. 14:58 Zachary King: You put the seed in there and then it grows almost very organically depending on the company, the shape, the context, the use. 15:05 Román Olivera: I've seen how like a few of our friends here have used it. I've helped them set it up. 15:11 Zachary King: Yep. 15:11 Román Olivera: And then I see weeks later, not even months later. 15:14 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 15:15 Román Olivera: It's like, oh man, that's cool. That's different. Like, that's totally different from what I— 15:19 Zachary King: Have you, have you kind of put this out as a, you know, is there a GitHub starter pack for Flatfish or? 15:24 Román Olivera: No, not really, man. 15:25 Zachary King: Okay. Uh, I did a very basic one for work the other day, which was, you know, here's how to get started with Brain OS. Um, super simple, like literally for people who are like, I wanna, you know, I'm currently using Claude chat, uh, and I want to, I want to start building my own personal brain. It's like, great, point it at this. Here's a, you know, here's a, here's an about me. What do you use? State? Mine is called, uh, context, I think. What's the context of this project? 15:51 Román Olivera: Yeah, mine is called data, but just— 15:53 Zachary King: And then I have a tasks. You have a tasks file as well? 15:56 Román Olivera: No, I don't. I have a data setup that has like the— is, it's becoming more complex as time goes by, but I have like, uh, I've refactored recently so that one thing that I wanted to do was that I didn't want to manage, project manage. And what I mean by that is that I didn't want to have to create the report for the client, right? Every Friday. And not because I didn't want to create the report, it was because I thought like, this is what you should be doing. 16:28 Zachary King: That's what you should be doing. 16:29 Román Olivera: You should be doing it, right? And he was like, well, Yeah, you can tell the agent to do it, but also you don't really need that. So it's like the actions, we're at every moment, we have the actions that we're taking and we have a plan, right? 16:45 Zachary King: Yeah. 16:46 Román Olivera: When we start the project, we have a plan, right? You know, step by step. And this could be, you know, a dashboard you're creating for yourself or, you know, anything, you know, but if you're actually working for a client, setting up something, then you have also a project plan. So that goes there and then the agent, we kind of specify how it should work there. And then every time it creates a, it completes a task, then it updates the status, right? It marks it as done, comments on what was done or whatever. So then you create your Gantt chart Report template, and it just and then feeds every time that I need it. I just go and say, "Hey, I need the weekly report for X client." It's there. 17:37 Zachary King: It's there. There has never been a better time in human history to be a dashboard enjoyer. It's so good. My dashboards have dashboards. 17:43 Román Olivera: Dashboards have dashboards, man. All right, let let let me let me try something now, right? What if from the phone, you know? I use a lot of, like I said, I use a lot of voice. Let's start this. I connect to this computer. I have like 2 computers running. 17:59 Zachary King: Yep. 18:00 Román Olivera: Always at the same time. So I connect to this computer and in Codex, which is my main driver now, but I use Clipchamp as well. So let's just, just for that testing, I should just show you how it works. Let's say we were at the pub. Every Friday we have like pub lunch here from the help. We were there. I met this guy, right? So I'm out. Let me just actually say this, right? So create a CRM entry for a person that I just met at the pub lunch, and his name is Francisco Lopez. He's a guy from Spain that just arrived in Australia. He's an apparently an AI wizard, and I just met him at the pub and we said that we're going to invite him over to the hub so he can meet a bunch of the guys that are, you know, doing crazy stuff here with AI. Let me know if you need any more information. There you go. So that's, that's that, right? So now we're going to have that, that, um, and actually, uh, his nickname, he likes to be called Pancho. 19:07 Zachary King: Pancho. 19:09 Román Olivera: I love it. So yeah. So right now, yeah, we, we're doing a bunch of things at the same time. I just used different devices, right? I can be anywhere else. 19:20 Zachary King: And so in your app there, I can see you were just using Codex Remote and you just spun up a new thread and said, hey, this is what it is. Just dropped it in. 19:28 Román Olivera: Yeah. There's a really cool one where you can use the voice, the actual voice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The only problem with that one is you need to guide it to the right folder 'cause it starts in a random folder. 19:41 Zachary King: Yeah, it spins up a new one. 19:43 Román Olivera: Yeah. 19:43 Zachary King: Spins up a new virtual one, yeah. 19:45 Román Olivera: So I always have to tell it, hey, go here, go there. 19:47 Zachary King: Yeah. 19:48 Román Olivera: knows where it is. 19:49 Zachary King: I, yeah, I think that's the best case. The Codex Voice is a little glimpse of what the future is like, man. It's freaking wild. Like it's a little shaky now and I get a lot of dropouts, but if you've built your system and you have this kind of modular setup with workflows, agents, folders, whatever, that ability I find wild. Like on a 3-hour drive, it's like, hey, what was the status of that project? Checking. Okay, it's here. All right. It's been, yeah. Yeah. Can you complete that and run a cross-check on that? And where are we at with this one? Oh, checking. Okay, this is it. I haven't started yet. Okay, can you spin that up and start on that? Report back to me when it's cleared. Okay, and what about this one? Man, like the ability to do work like that. 20:27 Román Olivera: I've done a few experiments like that. 20:31 Zachary King: Yeah. 20:31 Román Olivera: Actually doing work. 20:33 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, 100%. 20:34 Román Olivera: Yeah, and it's wild, man. Like I think because, and it's getting better because it was, it was using, uh, GPT-5. 20:41 Zachary King: Yep. 20:42 Román Olivera: Which you need to be aware of those things, right? Like, totally, because To make it fast, they were not using thinking models. So you start, you're talking to a GPT-5 model, which is a bit dumb in comparison to the others. But then you can tell it, you know, spawn a subagent and do this with, you know, GPT-6 now. And you can do it. But actually, I've noticed that now I see it is opening in 5.6. 21:09 Zachary King: And the other big unlock, I know it's a distraction here, but the other big unlock is you can now start it from existing threads. So, and that's only like in the last day or two. 21:19 Román Olivera: Yeah. 21:19 Zachary King: So if you have an existing one, you can start voice mode from that, which is a massive unlock. 21:23 Román Olivera: I saw it. I haven't used it because it was also— you can start a new, a new conversation there. 21:28 Zachary King: Yeah. 21:29 Román Olivera: But then that's it. And it goes to like a weird place in your, in your, uh, yeah, in the app. 21:34 Zachary King: You have to go down and depend on, on where it starts. Yeah. 21:38 Román Olivera: Yeah. You're listening to a dayone.fm show. 21:42 Zachary King: If you're watching this thinking, I want this working in my business, well, that's what we do at Works. Start at workshq.com.au. Right, let's get back to it. So yeah, so man, while that's spinning, tell us about— you said you were using one of the cheaper models to run this. I can't remember, was it Llama? 21:58 Román Olivera: Ah, Luna. I saw somewhere, like, you know, of course you go on Twitter and X, uh, Twitter for knowledge, and, and YouTube. And yeah, there was, there was some, some modeling there that was done about how Luna in max mode, which is like cents, like nothing, it's almost free, close to Sol. 22:20 Zachary King: Is that right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 22:22 Román Olivera: Like Sol medium. 22:23 Zachary King: So for what? Because I find it different depending on different tasks, like for everyday execution. 22:27 Román Olivera: Every day stuff. And then, and then of course when you want to do something serious. 22:31 Zachary King: Like strategic partner, you chip up to whatever. 22:34 Román Olivera: I move around from, uh, from You know, I go to Claude Code as well. 22:39 Zachary King: 100%. 22:40 Román Olivera: I play around with the other models. 22:43 Zachary King: Yeah. 22:43 Román Olivera: But I don't need to because these subscriptions give you everything, man. And these guys are setting every other day, they're setting each other. 22:52 Zachary King: God bless Thibault. 22:54 Román Olivera: Yeah, that's the drug dealer strategy. 22:59 Zachary King: They hook you. We genuinely, you know, everyone talks about, what would it be like if we lived in a time of unlimited tokens? We're living that now. Like, I very rarely, uh, hit my very large sub limits. I do, uh, because mainly I get close to the end and I start to burn them deliberately. Um, actually, I did, I did set up, uh, OpenRouter the other day for the first time. 23:22 Román Olivera: Really? 23:22 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, so I've used it, uh, and was pulling in Kimmy and using that for the latest KIMI for execution and for knowledge work, because I'd maxed out on— I forget where. I think I'd maxed out my Claude, so I didn't have that. And so I was using KIMI because I found that every single piece of work that I do that's above a kind of a small threshold, I'm sending to a different model to cross-check. 23:49 Román Olivera: Yeah. 23:50 Zachary King: So my 2 biggest skills, biggest, most common skills at the moment are Cross-review. So wherever I've started, send it to another model, usually from the other family is my preference. 24:01 Román Olivera: Yeah. 24:01 Zachary King: Or Kimmy. And then red team, which is, okay, this is a big piece of work or a PRD or something. Both models get 5 rounds adversarial review, and every single time they come back with some good stuff in it. 24:15 Román Olivera: And are you using agents as agents? Because I heard the other day your interview with Paul. 24:24 Zachary King: Yeah. 24:24 Román Olivera: And I find I'm doing exactly the same as they are 'cause it's like my agents are just skills really. Yeah, yeah. 24:31 Zachary King: I went up to the agent level for the first time about 2 weeks ago where it's kind of coordinating. The rest of it are skills, workflows. I'm calling it to do something and it will do something. And I will, for example, hey, I'm gonna build a new product. And most of my, 99% of my work is internal products. So it was like, I'm gonna build this internal product. Here's what I want you to do, yap at it. It's all— I'm all voice as well. So, you know, just tell it what I want. And then it has a PRD skill, so it'll build the PRD skill. And then it knows— oh, I at the end run it for, send it for cross-review. And it knows to, via CLI, it will call the other family, call a model from there and run a review that way. But that's me You know, going, yeah, every time I do that. You could string it together, but I don't do a lot of— 25:26 Román Olivera: So you trigger it? 25:28 Zachary King: Yeah, I trigger it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 25:29 Román Olivera: I joke about this in my house, but I think, you know, you have kids, you tell your kids, hey, put this, you know, in the drawer, put this where it belongs, you know. And it's like, where does it belong? Where does it go? You know, they know or they don't know, I don't know, but That's if they really not know. He's like, well, you know where it is, you know where it goes, you know? And then, and then, uh, and they go, I don't know. And then you just get stuck in that, right? Like, they're like, no, yeah, you do, put it in your place, put it in its place, whatever, you know? And I, I bring this up because I think that is almost a relationship that I see commonly with, with, uh, agents. People just want to go, people want the magic, right? Do it. And it's like, okay, sure, I'll do it, you know. 26:18 Zachary King: And then like, oh, it hallucinated, it didn't match my style. 26:21 Román Olivera: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, put it, put in the drawer. I was like, okay, put in that drawer. But it was supposed to be in that drawer. And it's like, when you go find it and it's like, what do you do, man? Like, this, this was supposed to be— you told me to put in the drawer. Yeah, it is a drawer, you know. And so I, I think when, when people talk about like, uh, where all this is going, you know, like, is AI gonna kill us all and stuff like that? I'm like, well, maybe someone that is just going— 26:50 Zachary King: To direct it to. 26:51 Román Olivera: To direct it to without knowing. So my point is actually you can be specific. You can direct it. I have one way that I describe the system is, I don't know if this is just me with my Mexican background, but you tell me if you Find this also, and that you relate to. But I remember the the old big bosses back in the eighties or whatever, right? Think about I don't know. Think about what's this marketing big show? Mad Men. Mad Men, right? 27:26 Zachary King: Oh yeah, yeah. 27:27 Román Olivera: Think about them, right? Yeah. And they go like Don Draper. 27:29 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 27:30 Román Olivera: And then you go they don't actually do anything. 27:32 Zachary King: Yeah. 27:33 Román Olivera: You know they're just directing the orchestra. You know like hey call you know James and tell him that blah blah blah blah. 27:39 Zachary King: Yeah. 27:40 Román Olivera: And then and then your secretary. 27:42 Zachary King: Right? 27:43 Román Olivera: That was the secretary. Now this, now their assistant secretary be like, okay, yeah. And then, okay, take dictation, right? Like, uh, send this letter. And it's like, and then, okay, file this, you know, take this, send this to the creative team. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 27:55 Zachary King: I want, I want 10 options on my desk by 11. I'm going to lunch. 27:59 Román Olivera: Exactly right. 28:00 Zachary King: And then the good old days. 28:01 Román Olivera: Okay, I have this, this, this, uh, you know, this file, please file it in place or whatever. And they just go, okay. Do you think that that Don Draper knew where that file went? 28:12 Zachary King: Yeah. 28:13 Román Olivera: No, like he didn't know the, the, the, the, the cabinet where it was. He just knew that it was going in the right place. And when he needed that file, hey, bring me that file that I told you yesterday. 28:21 Zachary King: Okay. 28:22 Román Olivera: You know, so you would come back like, boom, file's right there. 28:24 Zachary King: Get it right. 28:25 Román Olivera: Okay, so there's 2 things about that story, right? 28:27 Zachary King: Okay, wait, right, I wanna timestamp this. On Monday the 7th of September at 12:15, Ro has called that AI is gonna bring back the, uh, the Mad Men era. 28:37 Román Olivera: Mate, I think it already is. 28:38 Zachary King: The Mad Men era of knowledge work. 28:38 Román Olivera: It's almost like You have to force yourself to work like that. 28:42 Zachary King: Yeah, totally. 28:43 Román Olivera: If you don't do that, if I go in and edit my file, the file myself, like if I go in now, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna, we're gonna use this thing that we just built. 28:53 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It builds your presentation. 28:55 Román Olivera: If I just said, I just told this thing, right? Like, hey, do this, add this new profile about Pancho or whatever, right? And I could have done it. I could have gone and it was just, design myself. And a lot of people probably rather do that. The problem is, am I gonna use the right nomenclature from my system, the file naming that I created? No, I'm gonna forget that there's a dash or there's a these, and then it breaks the system. It probably doesn't actually in this case anymore, but you get the point, right? 29:29 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah, 100%. So you should not be doing it. 29:32 Román Olivera: You just tell the thing, set it up properly, of course, and then you just direct it. 29:37 Zachary King: Yeah. 29:37 Román Olivera: And then it goes and does the thing. 29:39 Zachary King: Yeah. 29:40 Román Olivera: And you can have a lot of people, a lot of agents helping you in different places if you have a proper setup, right? 29:47 Zachary King: Yeah, if you have the setup where they get the context and the knowledge, man, I love that. 2 things. My analogy when I'm talking to companies who are setting up for the first time is your AI is an incredibly PhD-level gifted intern. They've got all the— they've read all the textbooks with zero life experience. So they don't know that you talk about, I don't know, what's our profit margin in front of a client. 30:10 Román Olivera: Right. 30:10 Zachary King: Unless you tell it, unless you tell the intern, they'll share it because they don't know. They'll throw it out there. And that bit about capturing the context is so that— and the context in that instance is the feedback. And Claire Vo, who I'm a big fan of, she's got a great podcast. She does a lot of work with execs and she jokes that her job is to stand behind the exec and every time they go to open Gmail or CRM or Slack, bang, she hits their hand and say, no, you talk to the machine, you talk to the AI, and that feeds into your systems because that way it captures the feedback and that becomes context. 30:44 Román Olivera: And that's the compound effect. That's exactly the Mad Men way. That's what it is. You got to be a big boss from the '80s now or the '70s or whatever that was. 30:55 Zachary King: I'm going to get a skinny suit and a skinny— I'm going to get a sharp suit and a skinny tie. Well, that or— 31:00 Román Olivera: I've pictured some others as well. They're not exactly like that. But yeah, man. So the system, I guess we're all doing the same in different ways in here, you know, with the teams that are running this kind of projects here at the Hub. But you just said about the context, and the context is the thing. The context, if I'm ever gonna call this a product, that is what it is. It's having your own context. So I would talk to Chris about this often. He's like, you know, messages like, do you have any info about this new thing that just came out? That's like our test, you know? And because that was one of the issues before, right? Oh man. 31:42 Zachary King: Yeah. 31:42 Román Olivera: Yeah. You probably need to go into— 31:44 Zachary King: What's that new— someone dropped a new product. It's, it's brain in one click. You just add it and it does stuff. 31:49 Román Olivera: And right now it's like, hey man, you know about the— have you used GrokBot? And I mean, of course I go and check them out because, you know, we're in this. This is what we do now, right? Yeah, that's my life now. But do I need to use it? I don't use it. I don't need any of that, man. Like, I need the new models. And I do use the harnesses that we have around, like, you know, of course Codex and whatever. I can use Pi, use any of the others in the system. It doesn't really matter. It's just that my worry What's happening in that, and this I see with clients, with friends, and I keep insisting, if you get too comfortable now with the things that these companies are, these platforms are putting out for you, and this has a name, man. This is like Claude work or co-work and ChatGPT work. 32:42 Zachary King: Yep. 32:42 Román Olivera: They're amazing. Just connect your, just use the connectors, right? Connect your Gmail, connect your CRM, connect your Supabase, and everything perfect, and it works, and it's great. The problem is that's not your context anymore, and you use their memory as well. Memory is getting great. Memory is amazing. Yeah, but first of all, you're using the memory they decided. The platform decided how to save the things that you told it in its memory. So you didn't decide what memory was going there. You just used what— you just trusted them. 33:25 Zachary King: You just did it. 33:25 Román Olivera: Yeah, yeah. 33:25 Zachary King: You trust their system. Right? 33:27 Román Olivera: So I think that's one thing. We should decide what goes in our memory. That's one very relevant thing because you're deciding what matters. And I'm not doing it manually. 33:43 Zachary King: No, no, no. 33:43 Román Olivera: I just set up the system. This is what it is, right? And so that's one thing. The memories are very important, which is the context, right? The agnosticity of the platform that you're using, which is, these are the things that the Flatfish, I did, why I created the Flatfish, right? Agnostic, so I can move around. 34:08 Zachary King: You just plug in a new model drops, you plug it in. 34:10 Román Olivera: Yeah. Okay. I can use Claude code. I can use Codex. It doesn't matter. I own the context. It's mine. It's my memory is, I actually turn off the memory. 34:23 Zachary King: Oh, do you? Interesting. You're that far. 34:25 Román Olivera: You know why? Yeah, I went that far because then it tries to get ahead of itself when it has the memory. Yeah, it tries to use the memory. And in my context, I need the agent to read the rules. And what happens when it has its own memory is that it tries to skip steps to get there faster. 34:48 Zachary King: I ended up building memory as one of the, one of the modules, I guess, of the shared brain. So we've got you know, Claude MD, Agent MD files. You've obviously got the core kind of project files, um, you know, context. But memory is another one where I have a shared canonical version and that pushes out, uh, to whatever harness I'm using at the time. 35:14 Román Olivera: Yeah, yeah. 35:16 Zachary King: I haven't gone thermonuclear and turned it off, but I've seen people talking about that approach. 35:20 Román Olivera: And just to finish that thought, it's, it's— I think it's important for you to own the context and to own the memory because you can take it anywhere, right? If you become so dependent on the beauty and the ease, how easy it is to use the current systems, well, man, we just went from cloud code being the thing to now, oh, now it's Codex. Before it was Cursor. And maybe, I mean, I don't care which one's the next one. I'm not married to any of them. Yeah. You know, I'm, I go with the one that, that's better on the moment today and for this task. Exactly. And, and because I, I can bring my own context. 36:05 Zachary King: Yeah. Right. And man, where I think I'm 100% the same, and where I think that starts to get super interesting is, uh, when local AI comes on board, man, and you can just say, right, You know, the way that I think it's gonna roll is for any task below here, use a local model. 36:21 Román Olivera: Yeah. 36:22 Zachary King: You know, for reading files, for researching, for whatever, use these free local tokens that are burning out of whatever local system. And for the bigger piece, for the thinking, for the strategic, use my now wildly expensive Frontier model. I know. 36:36 Román Olivera: Yeah. Well, and it's not even that expensive now when you— No, no, not now. 36:40 Zachary King: But I mean, like, it's— Of course, of course. 36:42 Román Olivera: But yeah, anyway, look. 36:44 Zachary King: Okay, what are we looking at? 36:45 Román Olivera: The whole system, right? So it just created— remember what we did? I don't even remember what we did. It was like, hey, create a note. 36:50 Zachary King: Create, yeah, yeah. 36:51 Román Olivera: About the podcast. Yeah. And then explain what the Flashfish is. I don't know what it made. It made it on its own. 36:57 Zachary King: I love this, man. Let's find out live together. 36:58 Román Olivera: But the one thing is that, see, that design is my design. Those are the colors I'm using. That's a different font. It's not, it's not the sloppy font that, that, uh, that usually comes with, you know, it's, it's using my design. So what it chose to add, I don't know. I probably wouldn't do this normally. It's just, of course, a, a bit of an experiment, right? But of course, anyway, let's see. AI can work. Where does it— where's the work live? Uh, where does the work live? That is very important, right? 37:29 Zachary King: Yeah. 37:30 Román Olivera: Um, Flatfish gives useful AI work a durable place to return to. 37:36 Zachary King: I like that, durable context. 37:37 Román Olivera: Right? 37:37 Zachary King: I like that. 37:38 Román Olivera: So working context, there you go. Let's see what a folder becomes, a place. There you go. Well, I never said that, but that's how he interpreted it. 37:46 Zachary King: Yep. 37:47 Román Olivera: So see, he just created this Podcast with Zach. 37:51 Zachary King: Nice. 37:51 Román Olivera: He has a P before because, you know, it's part of your system, part of the system, and it could have been an A, it could have been an R, but, you know, he decided that he was a P and he's right. And so there you go. It tells us what the— so remember I told you I have rules, I have the data, which is the current state. It's true now, what is happening. We have a log, which is what's happening in the past. We don't touch it, we don't change that ever. It's always just appending. 38:19 Zachary King: Yep. 38:20 Román Olivera: So you can audit your system easily. And then right now, and this is— and I give it some freedom. Then the rest thing is we can do, we just need those files. The rest— 38:33 Zachary King: Will evolve. 38:35 Román Olivera: Let's see. 38:35 Zachary King: It'll grow. 38:36 Román Olivera: Okay. In this case, it was work, right? The project or knowledge itself. So the agent can change, the context remains. There you go. That's what we've been talking about. 38:45 Zachary King: Spooky. 38:46 Román Olivera: So here, future agent. No, where are we now? Codex. That's where we are now. Builds the presentation and writes the evidence. Then Claude can arrive later, which we're going to use it now. And then the future agent comes, right? And so, yeah, there you go. The agent follows a little bit. I don't know if you want to go through all these, man, but like, it's just telling us exactly, you know, how the system works. It still needs an address. Love it. We have a registry so the agent knows how to find each node, where to go. Conversation fades because, you know, where every conversation is just like lost if you didn't save any of that context, but the note stays there. We have a whole system that's watching the content of a conversation and it's saving what's important. So I don't actually have to tell it, you know, it's just looking at it and saying like, these are important to your context. So it'll save it into the context. The system resumes from evidence. There you go. That's very important. You know, where do we start? I can go, I can leave this. If this was just something that we're talking about doing this and we're going to do it in 2 weeks' time, I'd probably set it up now. And then I come back 1, 2 days before to get prepped. And then I look at it and it's like, what did we talk with Zach? I don't know. Like, it's going to be here, right? And it becomes durable memory. Anyway, boom, health. 40:16 Zachary King: Oh, nice. That's a good tagline, man. 40:20 Román Olivera: Yeah, I like that. The agent can change, the context remains. So let me try one little thing, right? Remember, now I'm in Cloud Code right now and using VS Code. 40:34 Zachary King: So let's just go here and say, You can do voice, audio, and then it's around. 40:39 Román Olivera: I can do voice. Yeah. Okay, let's do voice. Go to the node where we created the, where we have the podcast with Zach. There's a presentation there. I want you to upload it to S3 and then use the shortener URL. Give me the shortened URL and draft An email using the Orban account, one for Zach saying, "Hey man, this is the the presentation that we talked about," and then another one for Pancho, the guy that I met at the pub, and just say that you know this is some information that might be useful, and hope to see him next time at the hub. I love that. Here you go. See how it goes. And then we send it. So it's a different harness, man. It's a different platform and— 41:40 Zachary King: Different harness, different model, different platform, still running on the same context. 41:44 Román Olivera: Everything. 41:46 Zachary King: Yeah. We'll pull it out, man. I love that because it sounded very similar to how I operate. Yeah. You specify which account you're running from, which email address. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 41:56 Román Olivera: That's what I was saying. I think a lot of people expect this to be magic and just like, oh, but you cheated because you actually told it to use that. Would it do it right if you didn't tell it? Yes, but why? Like, again, it's that putting that drawer, putting that other drawer. 42:11 Zachary King: Yep. 42:12 Román Olivera: Those 2 things, I think in my mind, I was doing that before. I was like, no, I don't need to tell you that. And actually it was part of my testing, right? Is it doing it without me telling it? 42:23 Zachary King: They are getting, they are getting a lot better at picking up, um, you know, the intent. 42:28 Román Olivera: Yeah. 42:28 Zachary King: Because a lot of the times, man, I'll just rattle off something off the top of my head that's scarce in, uh, in, in context. A lot of the times it's good. Yeah. But yeah, some rules behind it that say when I say send an email, check which, check which account that needs to come from. 42:42 Román Olivera: Yeah. Yeah. And, and now I have the setup, of course. Now I have the setup. But one thing that, that for me is very important, and I, I don't know, hopefully is this helps anyone watching, but, uh, I, I use, I rather use APIs than MCPs all day long. 42:58 Zachary King: Yeah. Yeah. 43:00 Román Olivera: And it's also more like I can control that. Yeah. You can do deterministic processes with that. I don't use the connectors if I can avoid it. I'd rather go through the painful process of setting it up as a tool in my system. 43:14 Zachary King: When you use Codex, use desktop app? 43:19 Román Olivera: Uh, yeah, mostly. Yeah, mostly. I like the Codex app. 43:22 Zachary King: Yeah. 43:22 Román Olivera: In Claude Code now I use VS Code or Terminal. 43:25 Zachary King: Yeah, I use Terminal. Terminal for Claude Codex desktop app is very good. Um, but so, so you still use, you don't use the native connectors? 43:34 Román Olivera: I don't use the native connectors again because then I get stuck and I cannot turn to, to Claude Code, you know, and do that. Even, even the skills, I have a different way to use the skills. 43:45 Zachary King: Yeah. 43:46 Román Olivera: It's exactly the same, but I just tell the— in my rules, it says the skills are not going to be in the config file because, you know, you have to go like— you cannot use your— well, you can, but you have to like hack it to use your Codex skills in your Flood code. 44:01 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, there's got to be a way around it. 44:03 Román Olivera: So I have it in my— I just have a folder that's the skills. 44:09 Zachary King: You have a canonical skills folder? It's just a folder in the root folder. 44:13 Román Olivera: And all the skills are there. And just that the, in the rules, it says, go and look here. It says, go, you're gonna find the skills here. And it, it, yeah, actually it saves a little bit context as well because it doesn't load them automatically. 44:27 Zachary King: Yeah. 44:27 Román Olivera: But it, it, it never fails to find that really. 44:30 Zachary King: Like, can I just say, I love that we're sitting here just having a, you know, just having a chinwag, having a jam, and you can see the agent just working. I never get tired of that. Like just watching it go through stuff. That and browser control, which for me is still like freaking witchcraft, man. I just love it. I get a kick out of it every time. And so here we are, we're living the Mad Men moment right now. 44:48 Román Olivera: That's what it is. 44:49 Zachary King: Just a couple of bosses shooting the shit while the workers are doing the heavy lifting. 44:53 Román Olivera: You just need to learn to just stop right there, right? And not feel that time that you just saved with other stuff. 45:02 Zachary King: Totally. AI saved me 7 hours a day. That means I can do 7 more hours with AI. 45:09 Román Olivera: There you go. See, so your draft saying like Pinterest blocked. So let's see what it's doing. I don't know what it did, but I'll show you exactly what happened. I'll show you right now because remember I gave it a bunch of things. It wasn't just draft the email. I said upload these, upload the link, shorten the URL. 45:28 Zachary King: I like this email. That was one of the things that I don't do. Why do you use a URL shortener? Just for convenience? 45:32 Román Olivera: Well, because these things are going to Like my, again, I set these things up. 45:39 Zachary King: I use Cloudflare. 45:39 Román Olivera: Anyway, I've been using AWS for ages. And so I just have— 45:43 Zachary King: Same, same, there's no difference. 45:44 Román Olivera: And I just say, okay, well let's set it up. And everything that I share, if I have a file, you know, like this is an HTML file, if I send it to you, you're not gonna be able to open it in your browser. 45:54 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah, much more convenient. 45:55 Román Olivera: So it's like, I'll send you the, actually look, I have the notification here. Zach, Zach King Explainer Podcast. It's already like, you probably don't have it yet because I can pull it. 46:06 Zachary King: I'm gonna pull up my phone, but it's recording. I pull up my phone and check that it's come in. 46:10 Román Olivera: Yeah, there you go. Okay, so, so look, okay, okay, here you look at, look at this, right? Let's, let's look at my, my screen. Yeah, so Zach's draft. So it says, uh, hi Zach, here's the presentation we talked about. It walks through Flatfish, blah blah blah. Okay, let's just, let's see if you can I know you can because you already saw this before, right? This Party Treat. So here's the link. I'm going to open it. Actually, I'm going to open it. I don't know if we're going to be able to see it here. Well, it's here, but— Nice. 46:43 Zachary King: There it is. 46:43 Román Olivera: There it is. And like I was saying, I use the shortener because look at this horrible S3 link. 46:49 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah. Okay. 46:50 Román Olivera: Yeah, yeah, sure. I don't know. It just looks nice, man. Like, look at this. still little. So that's one thing. 46:54 Zachary King: I built some subdomains, so if you're sending a proposal, it's like proposal works and then whatever. 47:00 Román Olivera: I need to do that. Yeah. Okay, so that's one. And then look at this one. Apache blocked for whatever, so I couldn't create the mailbox. Oh, of course it was blocked because it never got no email. But look, it did it, right? Like whenever, whenever you— 47:15 Zachary King: so it's draft. Give me the email, bro. Exactly. You put me in charge? 47:18 Román Olivera: Oh, this is getting rough. Oh, I guess I can't work. Well, no, because I never get an email. But look at this. So it said it in Spanish. 47:26 Zachary King: In Spanish, yeah. 47:27 Román Olivera: I didn't have to say anything. 47:29 Zachary King: Yeah. 47:29 Román Olivera: And why? Because if I go and look at the CRM entries, which are just files, you're gonna see that here, language, it's telling me here, it's explaining his CRM has no email. I couldn't create the email. His profile does say language is in Spanish, so I wrote it in Spanish. 47:48 Zachary King: I love that because you didn't say language is Spanish. 47:51 Román Olivera: No. 47:51 Zachary King: You said he was from Spain. 47:53 Román Olivera: Yeah. 47:53 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah. 47:54 Román Olivera: No, no, no, but I cheated because it did ask me. 47:57 Zachary King: Oh, okay. It did ask me. 47:59 Román Olivera: While we were talking, it did ask me like, what about language? Because remember I said, if there's anything that you need from me, just let me know. And my phone, it came back and said, what's the language? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's required elements, there's elements you need, like email apparently. 48:15 Zachary King: Nice. 48:15 Román Olivera: But yeah, I asked, it asked me, but, and this is, this is the cool thing. It called him Pancho. 48:21 Zachary King: Yeah. 48:22 Román Olivera: When I have the, I have a skill that creates the CRM entries. 48:25 Zachary King: CRM entries. Yeah. 48:27 Román Olivera: And so it, it says, okay, when I give you the nickname, that means that, that is the way that I'm, I use the nickname here. This is CRM. This is not just an entry in my diary, right? So when I say a nickname, I'm I'm telling the agent, this is how I refer to this person. This is how I talk to him, right? So whenever, you know, if it's like Zachary, right? Or whatever, like, okay, that, then call him Zach. And then in this case, I said Puncher. So it knows to write the emails with that nickname because that's— and then it has the level of formality as well. It has a bunch of other things, right? So that's an example, right? We just created a presentation that I didn't say how to do it. I just said, explain how the Flashfish works. 49:16 Zachary King: Yeah. 49:16 Román Olivera: Went through the system, understood what it was, used my design system. Then I shared that with you and this fake individual, Pancho, and it knew how to send it. You know, it knew that it had to say to you in English, Pancho in Spanish, blah, blah, blah. Just a little example, right? Like, you're just saving time and making things better, right? You don't have to repeat that. Just, I do think that just you have to go really deep once and then let this thing do its job. 49:49 Zachary King: Mate, so good. I love that. It's so good. Mate, I could keep going on this all day, but we're nearly out of time. I appreciate that. I'm gonna hit you with some rapid-fire questions, and we may have covered some of these off already, but Mate, just, just, just whatever, whatever comes into, uh, into the head and, uh, let me know. Codex or Claude Code? 50:11 Román Olivera: Ah, Codex. 50:12 Zachary King: Voice or keyboard? 50:14 Román Olivera: Voice. 50:15 Zachary King: App or terminal? 50:17 Román Olivera: Ah, man, it depends. We just ran through that, but right now I think, I think app now. 50:24 Zachary King: Yeah. App and Codex for sure. Codex app was so good. It got me trying, uh, Claude desktop app again, but. 50:32 Román Olivera: Ah, exactly. Yeah, I think I did the same. 50:34 Zachary King: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. One shot or conversation? 50:36 Román Olivera: Uh, conversation. 50:39 Zachary King: Workflow or agents? 50:42 Román Olivera: Agents. 50:43 Zachary King: Rules or skills? 50:45 Román Olivera: Both. 50:47 Zachary King: Yeah, love it. Here's one. Files or database? 50:50 Román Olivera: Files. 50:51 Zachary King: Yeah, there it is. Everything's a file. One agent or a swarm? 50:54 Román Olivera: One agent for me. 50:56 Zachary King: Yep, love it. And last one, human review Or YOLO? 50:59 Román Olivera: No, human all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 51:02 Zachary King: Same. And that's what, you know, when you talked about before that I invoke most of the kind of skills or workflows or even mini agents, it's because most of what I do is in the kind of business context and it needs human in the review, human in review loop every time at every stage. 51:16 Román Olivera: Yeah. 51:17 Zachary King: Yeah. Nice, man. Look, I think you mentioned this briefly before, but it's worth digging into. Where do you get your alpha from? Twitter and YouTube? 51:24 Román Olivera: Yeah, both. I think, uh, a mix of both, but that's, that's my, that's my social media, if you want to call it. 51:32 Zachary King: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 51:32 Román Olivera: My YouTube. I always joke that if, uh, if I had just to keep just one paid subscription. 51:38 Zachary King: Is that right? 51:39 Román Olivera: YouTube? 51:39 Zachary King: YouTube. Yeah. Nice. I'm not, I'm not a video guy. I just can't, I can't do it. 51:43 Román Olivera: Well, the thing with YouTube is that, and the beauty of that subscription is that you can turn it off and it keeps going. 51:50 Zachary King: So it's a podcast. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So it becomes an audio podcast. Yeah. Nice. So mate, if there's somebody who wants to build their own Flatfish, their own agent brain, where should they start? 52:00 Román Olivera: Understand that an agent that works in an environment that is a forther, and that if you don't give it guidance, it's going to do whatever it wants. So the way to start is define what the rules are. And then, yeah, and in my case, yeah, you gotta have a state file as well, which is always what tells you the rules are how do you behave here? How do we work here? And the state is what's happening now. 52:36 Zachary King: Nice. And mate, where can people find you? Where are you online? You're on Twitter? 52:42 Román Olivera: You're on LinkedIn? Not really, man. I'll give you, I'll leave you my email, I guess. I'm really bad with with that. I'm I'm there, but I don't read those things. Yeah. What do you call when you like just watching? 52:53 Zachary King: A voyeur. 52:54 Román Olivera: A voyeur. Yeah. I don't share a lot of stuff. 52:58 Zachary King: I think we'll put it in the show notes. We'll put we'll put your LinkedIn profile in there. 53:02 Román Olivera: Yeah. LinkedIn. 53:03 Zachary King: Put the company profile in there. Yeah. Yeah. People can track you down from there. And mate, how can people listening? How can they help? How can they help you? 53:10 Román Olivera: This is something I did for myself, but then it's is gained a lot of. interest as well. So if anybody's interested in learning how to put this together as a productivity system, we've already gone down the path of doing it in enterprise level. We've done some really cool stuff with Azure and all that crazy stuff that is hard to bear with all the, but that's what companies need, right? Yeah. 53:39 Zachary King: That's the next challenge. Yeah. Building it for one is fun and then it's like, okay, how can you weaponize this and make it live in an enterprise environment. That's a whole other episode on that. We could go down that path. Yeah, man. 53:51 Román Olivera: But that's very important because otherwise you just stay like, yes. And I said files, but in reality, a lot of those things are going to databases. 54:00 Zachary King: Yeah, totally. It's just another input, right? Yeah. 54:04 Román Olivera: In those environments for clients in enterprise, you just can't get away with just using files. But yeah, yeah, I think anybody interested, let me know. 54:14 Zachary King: Nice. 54:14 Román Olivera: Zach's also— 54:15 Zachary King: You track me down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's Operator AI for this week. Do me a favor, and if you know anyone, any operators who are thinking about building their own personal or professional system or agent brain or efficiency program on steroids, then send them this episode. That's, uh, that's how we'll find it. Thanks, mate. Thanks for coming along. 54:40 Román Olivera: That was awesome. 54:44 Zachary King: That's Operator AI for this fortnight. Do me one favor, send this episode to one operator who needs it. That's how shows like this find their people. I'm Zachary King. See you in a fortnight. Hey, thanks so much for listening to this episode. I'm Adam Spencer, the founder of Day One, and I've got a show that I'd love to recommend if you enjoyed this one. Operator AI shows real people running real work with AI. Life After Launch with Megan Littrell and Gio George widens the lens from workflow to the founder journey, the origin, the career, the launch, and 3 lessons that stick. If a practical demo makes you wonder what shaped the operator and the company behind it, Life After Launch gives you the fuller story. 55:27 Speaker: Search Life After Launch wherever you get your podcasts or just go to dayone.fm and you'll find the show there.
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